Help! I don't want to pay FIL's bills!

[Blurp]

The background: DH has 3 siblings who live nearby. MIL died a few years ago, so FIL lives alone in the house DH grew up in. They describe themselves as "very close" and have always gone to FIL's twice a week for dinner (just the siblings and their kids, not partners). When MIL was alive, she cooked; since her death, they take it in turns to cook, so DH cooks once every other week. This costs about £25 each time, so about £50 per month.

FIL has recently retired. He has absolutely no savings (MIL was a HUGE spender and just spent it all), and gets only a state pension. He's realised that he can't afford to pay for all the bills. The house has 6 bedrooms, so it's huge, expensive Council tax, expensive to heat etc.

In my head, the solution is that he needs to move somewhere smaller and more manageable. However, DH & siblings are not in favour of this because then they wouldn't be able to go round all at once, certainly not twice a week.

His brother has suggested that they all chip in each month to cover the bills - about £50 each. So including the cost of cooking once a fortnight, we'd be forking out about £100 a month for this.

We could afford it, but we'd be sacrificing other things. For instance, we'd like to move to a bigger house (the kids would love some outdoor space). But that would be very tight financially if we had this extra money to pay each month. We'd also like to start saving some money for the kids each month too - £25 each would build up to a decent amount.

DH agrees with me in principle, but is being put under pressure by his siblings. He said he'd feel bad continuing to go to dinner twice a week if he wasn't paying his share. But he also doesn't want FIL to have to move, thereby possibly meaning that they can no longer all visit together.

There was a vague suggestion at one stage that if FIL didn't have enough space, they'd all take it in turns to go round each others' houses, so we'd host every other week. This won't work because both me and one of the other siblings partners work from home and it would be too disruptive (and anyway, I don't really want a big crowd of people in the house once a fortnight). Again, I feel like I'm getting in the way of the plans.

Any suggestions? Is it unfair of me to say no to us paying money to FIL each month? Or is it reasonable to expect him to live within his means, even if that means moving house?

So he stays in an unaffordable 6 bedroom house so that he can host family dinners twice a week. That actually sounds quite bonkers to me.

It might be hard for your DH's family to change a long standing routine but really they need to adapt to the changing circumstances.

If your FIL downsized he would be in a better financial position and would probably find a smaller house more manageable. I'm sure an alternative way of meeting up could be found such as, squeezing in to a smaller lounge, meeting at other family members' houses, meeting at a local pub or club. Frankly anything other than staying in a 6 bedroom house just to host dinners.

A single man struggling to pay his bills whilst living in a 6 bed house? This is bonkers. He needs to downsize, not live off his children. If everyone must come round for family meals get a bungalow with a massive dining room. There’s a lot of enabling going on here.

My merely 3 bedroomed house has enough room for six whole people to sit round the table OP, and that's before we put the extra stools on! Of course he should downsize. He could get a lovely three bed bungalow with room for everyone to visit and cash in the bank. What if something big happens in the current house, like the roof needing replaced?

Sounds like he doesn't actually 'need' a 6 bedroom house then, just one with a large dining room / living trom.

Seems crazy to stay in a massive house that he can't afford just to host a dinner twice a week.

Would any of the siblings perhaps consider house-swapping with him?

Op do you mean there's nothing affordable and smaller nearby? This would be the case if my mum sold, the nearest apartments/small houses would cost pretty much the same as her bigger older house. I see why they want to stay close. Could he move in with any of you?

But you're not all going round at the moment (at the same time anyway) because of the rules around Covid and only two households being able to mix?

So wouldn't this be a good time to start making some plans, as at the moment you can't have these twice weekly dinners anyway?

@oldstripeyNEWname1

Have a proper discussion and start financial planning now.

Having meals twice a week is all nice and good but it's not dealing with realities of life is it? The fact mil and fil got to this stage in life without proper planning is alarming enough: allowing next generation to perpetuate it is ridiculous.

Reality is fil, together with family, need to think about realities of planning for life with increasing costs and increasing healthcare needs. If his health declines, he won't be able to physically clean and maintain a big house, let alone afford it. If his health needs means he needs to go into a care placement, or stays at home with a package of care providers, you really need good financial advice now. Your partner and his family need to stop putting their heads in the sand and use one of these endless jolly family meals to actually talk.

Yes, the thing about their "closeness" is that it's all fun and "hilarious tedious banter" but they never actually have any level of conversation. There's a lot of people talking behind each others' backs, forming alliances and playing people off against each other. But that's for another thread...

@CrocodilesCry

But you're not all going round at the moment (at the same time anyway) because of the rules around Covid and only two households being able to mix?

So wouldn't this be a good time to start making some plans, as at the moment you can't have these twice weekly dinners anyway?

You would think... but as soon as they're allowed, dinners will be resuming.

Would he take in a lodger or 2 to help pay the bills/for company?

They all probably have an attachment to the house which is understandable (but not necessarily practical)

Your DH, his siblings and father need to get their heads out of the sand. This is clearly an unsustainable situation. What will happen when major repairs are needed, or the boiler breaks down? Your FIL absolutely needs to live within his means, even if that means the family dinners are a bit more squashed than they were. He can't stay in a huge house on his own just for a dining table!

Having said that, it does sound a bit unreasonable of you to refuse to host once a fortnight. You get two nights a week on your own after all!

To clarify, it's not just the siblings and FIL - they also all bring their kids, so it's a total of 14 people.

I work from home, but look after DCs during the day, so the days that DH takes them to FILs I work while they're away to make up hours. We only have the kitchen table for me to work at, so it would just be impossible if they were all there. And then I'd have to work into the evening to catch up, which I don't like doing.

@Popjam

Would he take in a lodger or 2 to help pay the bills/for company?

They all probably have an attachment to the house which is understandable (but not necessarily practical)

Absolutely not, he wouldn't even consider it.

Isn't downsizing just about finding the right property? He doesn't need 6 bedrooms, but does need an open plan living area to accommodate lots of people for meals. Whilst not a common set up, there should be something that fits the bill.

You do need to sort something out then. The way you were talking it sounded like they were still all meeting twice a week at FIL's house.

Sounds the perfect time to get the ball rolling and something sorted as he's been rattling around alone in a six bed house since March.

@stayathomer

Op do you mean there's nothing affordable and smaller nearby? This would be the case if my mum sold, the nearest apartments/small houses would cost pretty much the same as her bigger older house. I see why they want to stay close. Could he move in with any of you?

I think they had a look and the houses that were more affordable tended not to have separate dining rooms, and the living rooms wouldn't be big enough for all of them.

Of course it is ridiculous to stay in a big, 6 bedroomed house that you can't afford.
I would not be contributing family money to that.
I would not have a lot of sympathy with someone who has just retired (from a job that has enabled them to buy and live in a 6 bedroomed house - so presumably not a NMW job, even before you mention your MiL's spending choices), not having a decent pension nor any savings, tbh. Fine, their choice to spend all their money as they earned it, but the consequence of that is that they live more frugally during retirement.

Secondly, I would NOT be impressed if dh said he was going out to eat twice a week, at a reoccurring event I wasn't invited to.
I'd have no problem with an annual get together of the siblings without partners if that's what they wanted to do, but seriously, twice a week!!! I'd have issues with the expense, but bigger issues with the time commitment.

Then, thirdly, if he is selling a big 6 bed house, it doesn't have to be a choice between that and a bedsit. He could easily get a flat or house with space fro a large dining table, if that is important to him.

Or maybe the siblings could grow up, realise they all have families of their own that need their time and money, and take turns to go round and eat - as a whole family - with their Dad, and then you all get together once every few months and have a buffet or a takeaway or whatever suits at that point.

He needs to live within his budget like everyone else which in this case means downsizing to afford a comfortable life. He could buy a 3bedroom house and have plenty money to live and still have plenty room for everyone to visit.

FIL sells up or gets a lodger or 3.
And they go out for food or take turns to host in their own homes.
Enabling FIL isn't doing anyone any favours.

This may have already been said but your father in law can claim quite a lot of benefits to help him. Yes, he really can! That is the first thing to organise.

Of course he needs to downsize but it's probably too early for him to consider that. There's nothing worse than being railroaded into such a big decision so let him come around to the idea on his own.

I don't think any of this man's children should have to contribute £100 a month regularly but the odd donation here and there would be a nice gesture.

Incidentally, I have no idea what happens if the boiler breaks down or anything like that. I suspect we'd end up splitting the cost.

They're a family who don't DO planning. It's all about "family is more important than money", but when big decisions need to be made it's usually the older ones who decide, and then they manipulate the others into agreeing.

They refuse to allow FIL to encounter any negativity, he must be kept happy at all times. So if he's unhappy, everyone races in to fix it. But sometimes he seems like a spoilt child, to be honest. He's a nice man, don't get me wrong, but the whole set up of the family had always seemed odd to me.

Unfortunately when you can’t afford to live in a 6 bedroomed house then you need to live in a house you can afford, making sacrifices alongside the way!

We go to mils for Boxing Day dinner and we sit with it on our knee! You make it work!

He needs to downsize. A single person doesn’t need a 6 bedroom house. Plus getting you to contribute towards it is CF, especially if you then can’t move house or save for other things. If some bright spark suggest moving in with him, then make sure you shoot that down quickly

@BackforGood

Of course it is ridiculous to stay in a big, 6 bedroomed house that you can't afford. I would not be contributing family money to that. I would not have a lot of sympathy with someone who has just retired (from a job that has enabled them to buy and live in a 6 bedroomed house - so presumably not a NMW job, even before you mention your MiL's spending choices), not having a decent pension nor any savings, tbh. Fine, their choice to spend all their money as they earned it, but the consequence of that is that they live more frugally during retirement.

Secondly, I would NOT be impressed if dh said he was going out to eat twice a week, at a reoccurring event I wasn't invited to.
I'd have no problem with an annual get together of the siblings without partners if that's what they wanted to do, but seriously, twice a week!!! I'd have issues with the expense, but bigger issues with the time commitment.

Then, thirdly, if he is selling a big 6 bed house, it doesn't have to be a choice between that and a bedsit. He could easily get a flat or house with space fro a large dining table, if that is important to him.

Or maybe the siblings could grow up, realise they all have families of their own that need their time and money, and take turns to go round and eat - as a whole family - with their Dad, and then you all get together once every few months and have a buffet or a takeaway or whatever suits at that point.

I would actually love for DH and I to take the kids round occasionally and have a proper catch-up with FIL, instead of the twice a week thing. But it's just not how their family operate.

Their solution of paying his bills is unfeasible and unfair. He should move. However you not compromising about family coming over twice a month is absolutely ridiculous. Have you not thought they may all be more willing to sell the family home if you were not so precious anD inflexible. In your husband’s shoes I would probably just pay FZiLsFIZl’s bills than not see his family as much as he wanted in his own home because his wife won’t allow it.

I’d start sending around adverts of appropriate down-sizing houses you find on the internet. Stop them using that silly excuse that no places with big dining tables but less than 6 bedrooms exist. Where do they think childfree people who love entertaining live?

Get them arguing the merits of various houses, it’ll progress the situation in the right direction.

Also agree FIL needs to be put in front of a recommended, clever financial advisor before any decisions are made just by siblings. Options will open right up when this is done, and hopefully it’ll prick FIL’s conscience a bit. I see him releasing equity in his home, and also having his spending overseen by someone. Maybe your DH can offer to be that person, to counteract any commentary from the others that he/you are being mean not to chip in for the bills?