Help! I don't want to pay FIL's bills!

[Blurp]

The background: DH has 3 siblings who live nearby. MIL died a few years ago, so FIL lives alone in the house DH grew up in. They describe themselves as "very close" and have always gone to FIL's twice a week for dinner (just the siblings and their kids, not partners). When MIL was alive, she cooked; since her death, they take it in turns to cook, so DH cooks once every other week. This costs about £25 each time, so about £50 per month.

FIL has recently retired. He has absolutely no savings (MIL was a HUGE spender and just spent it all), and gets only a state pension. He's realised that he can't afford to pay for all the bills. The house has 6 bedrooms, so it's huge, expensive Council tax, expensive to heat etc.

In my head, the solution is that he needs to move somewhere smaller and more manageable. However, DH & siblings are not in favour of this because then they wouldn't be able to go round all at once, certainly not twice a week.

His brother has suggested that they all chip in each month to cover the bills - about £50 each. So including the cost of cooking once a fortnight, we'd be forking out about £100 a month for this.

We could afford it, but we'd be sacrificing other things. For instance, we'd like to move to a bigger house (the kids would love some outdoor space). But that would be very tight financially if we had this extra money to pay each month. We'd also like to start saving some money for the kids each month too - £25 each would build up to a decent amount.

DH agrees with me in principle, but is being put under pressure by his siblings. He said he'd feel bad continuing to go to dinner twice a week if he wasn't paying his share. But he also doesn't want FIL to have to move, thereby possibly meaning that they can no longer all visit together.

There was a vague suggestion at one stage that if FIL didn't have enough space, they'd all take it in turns to go round each others' houses, so we'd host every other week. This won't work because both me and one of the other siblings partners work from home and it would be too disruptive (and anyway, I don't really want a big crowd of people in the house once a fortnight). Again, I feel like I'm getting in the way of the plans.

Any suggestions? Is it unfair of me to say no to us paying money to FIL each month? Or is it reasonable to expect him to live within his means, even if that means moving house?

He could downsize and have equity to spend on himself. I rather hope he does and makes merry.
I suspect whilst not wanting to support him now, you’ll be wanting a share of the inheritance.

MiniCooper then they are controlling and selfish - the chances of him meeting someone new are high given his age. They'd be better off accepting this may happen and ensuring he can live comfortably within his means. No own deserves an inheritance, nor should the expect it. It's more important that the living live their best lives.

@CherryPavlova

He could downsize and have equity to spend on himself. I rather hope he does and makes merry. I suspect whilst not wanting to support him now, you’ll be wanting a share of the inheritance.

I couldn't care less about an inheritance. I'd love to see him downsize, to have money to enjoy his retirement. He has a brother who lives in Canada and it would be great if he was able to afford to go and visit him.

Sell the house, downsize FIL will have more cash....most people don’t live in 6 bedroom houses especially when they can’t pay the bills...

My DF was widowed at a similar age - but started going to U3A and other groups to entertain himself and in no time at all he was going on lots of dates as he said a fit (physically and financially) man of his age was out numbered and in demand Bless him he's had a lovely time. I wonder why your in laws don't want that? They do seem very interested in maintaining the status quo.

Also - inheritance wise, the chances are it would go on care anyway, there is no point in shoring up this unsustainable situation with a massive house. My MIL has a much smaller house, my DH paid off the mortgage when FIL died. He's also one of many siblings, 2-3 of whom now, years later question why MIL has in her will a bit where she pays him back the exact amount he used to pay off the mortgage. They think her estate should be split evenly - despite the fact there would be no house without his money, and also even had he left his money in a low interest account he would have got a better rate of return. He could have bought a % of the house and seen his investment triple - but thought that would cause problems. Now the problem is that MIL wants to simply return his loan but his siblings think that's not fair as she is favouring him! You can't win.

We had 12 in my little bungalow on Monday night.
Plenty of room.
Hrtft..does he really want a 6 bed house.
I certainly wouldn’t.
Money put

We had 12 in my little bungalow on Monday night.
Plenty of room.
Hrtft..does he really want a 6 bed house.
I certainly wouldn’t.
Money pit

@Petlover9
In my LA it has nothing to do with pension
Single occupancy gets a 25 per cent reduction

This doesn’t apply here but anyone who has an elderly parent living alone with a diagnosis of dementia and / or would qualify for attendance allowance ( they don’t have to actually be claiming it) do NOT have to pay council tax
This is FACT. I got £2600 after mum passed away. My cousin in London got £8k and no more bills as her mum is still alive.

Also, if your parents are both alive and one has a diagnosis of dementia, then that person is discounted and the 25 per cent reduction still applies

The bit I’m a bit uncertain about Is I know it applies to their own privately owned house, I’m unsure of the facts if they are renting.

Dementia is a horrible illness. Ruined my family. It’s nice to know there is some financial help out there.

How lovely for your FIL, that his siblings are this way, credit to him, so many nowadays seem to not give a toss . A lot of other countrys have parents/ in laws live with them when they get unable to take care of themselves. I think its great they are trying to keep him him in his home for whats left of his life, his memories are in that house, good and bad. There are a few ways around this, if the property is owned he can take equity (a lump sum) out of the property, that way he can stay independent and pay his bills, but it means on his passing they get first dibs on what they are owed. But it would take pressure off the rest of you. Or you could think of it as savings if you all chip in when he passes away be it 10/20 yrs it will be more than you could save for your children, the estate will be split equally amongst you all. We did this when my mum was left alone, when she passed those that didnt put in didnt get an equal share.

@Barney60 it's a nice idea in theory that paying for the bills is long term savings, but it doesn't stack up.

DF could easily live another 30 years whereas OP and family will need savings they can access during that time for moving house and longer term ambitions.

Also DF could have to go into a home at some point, in which case the house will be used as an asset and they won't care who has paid for what unless there's a hold on the house.

Property will need maintaining- where does the money come from for that ?

FWIW I don't think anyone is doing this because they're after an inheritance, it seems more like ingrained habit of keeping DFIL happy at all cost, plus a desire to keep these excessive family gatherings in place.

@Barney60

How lovely for your FIL, that his siblings are this way, credit to him, so many nowadays seem to not give a toss . A lot of other countrys have parents/ in laws live with them when they get unable to take care of themselves. I think its great they are trying to keep him him in his home for whats left of his life, his memories are in that house, good and bad. There are a few ways around this, if the property is owned he can take equity (a lump sum) out of the property, that way he can stay independent and pay his bills, but it means on his passing they get first dibs on what they are owed. But it would take pressure off the rest of you. Or you could think of it as savings if you all chip in when he passes away be it 10/20 yrs it will be more than you could save for your children, the estate will be split equally amongst you all. We did this when my mum was left alone, when she passed those that didnt put in didnt get an equal share.

The thing is, we have young children. We may well need access to our money while FIL is still alive, for things like university etc. We'd like to move to a bigger house while they're still young. FIL is mid-60s, in good health - hopefully he'll be around for a good while yet. By the time we'd inherit anything, we won't need it for our own children.

Sorry, didn't RTFT but I think it's very unkind of your DH's siblings to resist the sale of the house just for their own convenience. You FIL could downsize & have a nice nest egg & some financial security but they don't want to miss their little cosy gatherings? Really mean of them. They need to grow up.

Part of OP's frustration seems to be that the family doesn't appear to be able to discuss options sensibly. Without reducing everything to banter. So, things are proposed, and it is embarrassing for siblings if they don't go along with it.

Would it be possible for DH to set up a WhatsApp or Messenger group to discuss options? That way, he could raise a number of possible options. He would also have the opportunity to calmly say that he is not at the same stage of life as some of the siblings, and won't be able to take on additional expenses at the moment even if they can. I've found this approach quite effective at getting people to address a problem more calmly and fairly. And actually allowing each person to express their point of view without being overly dominated by the others. People don't have to react immediately to each message and can think things through.

But, a key thing should be getting PIL to say what he would really like to happen and to talk through a few of his options. I think this is more likely to be successful in a few one to one sessions rather than in noisy group sessions. It would be best if at least two different siblings (or disinterested people) did this, so that you are sure that no particular sibling is leading him in their preferred direction.

He is not yet an old person needing assistance. I think that he would be affronted if people thought that he wasn't capable of planning for his own future. Others may be able to help by offering advice, but at his age, he will be expecting to make decisions himself.

I know that this was not the point of the post. But what jumped out at me us that the partners of the children do not go to the dinners, are they not invited? It just strikes me as a strange family dynamic, especially if the grandchildren are going.

Swap houses!

I don't think it's necessarily an inheritance thing either. I remember my exH being furious with me when I suggested his dad (living alone at 70 in a 3-bed family house) could consider downsizing when he talked about not being able to cope with the maintenance.
That was a council property and I knew council family houses were in short supply so maybe win-win for ex-FIL and a new family.
He really was furious that I would suggest such an upheaval for his dad. He had always talked about how happy they all were as a family of 4 to finally go from a small 2-bed flat to a 3-bed house with a garden, but he couldn't see my point at all.

He should downsize and then visit one child's family home for dinner a week. That way it will just be one additional person to feed and everyone has a turn at doing it.

(Coming from someone who's mum died, suddenly and recently).

I know where you’re coming from @Blurp and it’s hard. We’ve had to take on a lot regarding my mum due to some ridiculous financial decisions made in the past which have basically left her broke. My sister, of course, does nothing to help. It’s frustrating but presumably it’s your husband’s money too and if he wants to help then you should let him. His dad won’t be around forever so don’t fall out over £100 a month.

The OPs DH doesn't need to get involved in decisions about his DFs property.
He just needs to state that he cannot afford £50 a month to pay for his DFs bills. FIL needs to make his own decisions about what he can and cannot afford. If other siblings choose and have the means to support him financially- well they can crack on with it.

Agree, @rookiemere

But her DH is being shamed into contributing. Talking about other options is a way of allowing him to admit that he won't be able to afford to contribute much.

They are all infantilising FIL. But won't realise because they think they are supporting him.

@EmbarrassedUser

I know where you’re coming from *@Blurp* and it’s hard. We’ve had to take on a lot regarding my mum due to some ridiculous financial decisions made in the past which have basically left her broke. My sister, of course, does nothing to help. It’s frustrating but presumably it’s your husband’s money too and if he wants to help then you should let him. His dad won’t be around forever so don’t fall out over £100 a month.

His Dad could be around another 20 years. That’s £24,000k. Not an insignificant amount that could have been saved for a family with young DC’s living in a small house, compared to a single man in a 6 bedroom house. It’s massively entitled behaviour to expect his DC’s to pay his bills. What if one gets made redundant, another becomes too ill to work and another becomes pregnant?

@woollyheart that's helpful, thanks. I mentioned it to DH there, and he's going to set up a group.

@Blurp That's good. I did something similar for a (much older) parent. In the group people were able to say much more honestly what they could personally do or pay towards. And weren't forced to commit to things on the spot without checking it was ok with partners.

It's wants versus needs.

His family "want" him to have a 6 bedroom house
He actually "needs" to downsize as the bills are not manageable, the size of the house is not manageable and FFS he is in his 60s and fit so why is he being run around for like a doddery 80year old.

Has anyone actually talked/suggested downsizing to FIL and saying how much fun he would have with the spare cash and travelling all over the world if he wanted?

Downsizing does not stop family from seeing him. That is a red herring - I would suggest that although you and your DH are not bothered about inheritance - the siblings are! They will get a big shock when he has to sell the huge house to pay for social care and then it's all gone anyway and they paid for his lifestyle up til then!

It's disgraceful you've been accused of being worried about the inheritance you might receive.

The house might be "six bedrooms" but from what you've described it sounds like it needs A LOT of work, possibly before it can even be sold.

The reality is you are potentially being asked to provide a blank cheque to your DH's family. What is GBP 50 or 100 now could be who knows what shortly especially if he can't fund repairs on the house.

He needs to be settled somewhere he can afford the bills without help, especially in the current financial climate where no one can credibly predict the financial future we are all facing. This is common sense and there is no alternative to it. One day he may need practical help to live day to day or medical attention - you need the resoruces for that time.

There is really no alternative here.

It would be me and the kids or his family, if I were in your shoes at the present moment.

Whereabouts in the country does your FIL live?