Help! I don't want to pay FIL's bills!

[Blurp]

The background: DH has 3 siblings who live nearby. MIL died a few years ago, so FIL lives alone in the house DH grew up in. They describe themselves as "very close" and have always gone to FIL's twice a week for dinner (just the siblings and their kids, not partners). When MIL was alive, she cooked; since her death, they take it in turns to cook, so DH cooks once every other week. This costs about £25 each time, so about £50 per month.

FIL has recently retired. He has absolutely no savings (MIL was a HUGE spender and just spent it all), and gets only a state pension. He's realised that he can't afford to pay for all the bills. The house has 6 bedrooms, so it's huge, expensive Council tax, expensive to heat etc.

In my head, the solution is that he needs to move somewhere smaller and more manageable. However, DH & siblings are not in favour of this because then they wouldn't be able to go round all at once, certainly not twice a week.

His brother has suggested that they all chip in each month to cover the bills - about £50 each. So including the cost of cooking once a fortnight, we'd be forking out about £100 a month for this.

We could afford it, but we'd be sacrificing other things. For instance, we'd like to move to a bigger house (the kids would love some outdoor space). But that would be very tight financially if we had this extra money to pay each month. We'd also like to start saving some money for the kids each month too - £25 each would build up to a decent amount.

DH agrees with me in principle, but is being put under pressure by his siblings. He said he'd feel bad continuing to go to dinner twice a week if he wasn't paying his share. But he also doesn't want FIL to have to move, thereby possibly meaning that they can no longer all visit together.

There was a vague suggestion at one stage that if FIL didn't have enough space, they'd all take it in turns to go round each others' houses, so we'd host every other week. This won't work because both me and one of the other siblings partners work from home and it would be too disruptive (and anyway, I don't really want a big crowd of people in the house once a fortnight). Again, I feel like I'm getting in the way of the plans.

Any suggestions? Is it unfair of me to say no to us paying money to FIL each month? Or is it reasonable to expect him to live within his means, even if that means moving house?

Your kids, OP, are your priority and should be their father's.

So his DC get to grow up with no outside space while ickle Daddy must be financed fully in a 6-bedroom house to himself?

Yuk.You'll still be financing Daddy long after your DC have grown up and left home.

DH's have to see each other all the time, but everything with them is very rigid, and to be honest, quite pressured.
How true is that? My DH's family used to have things they had to do. I pointed out that these were all just things his eldest brother wanted and then browbeat others into going along with. When the other siblings properly noticed their brother being a controlling dick and one of them (DH) said it out loud, the spell was almost instantly broken. Eldest sister was like "fuck this, he's not the boss of me" quite quickly and simply ignored the big controller. Which was bloody hilarious. Things got much better after that. Do you maybe have one sibling who is pulling all the strings?

You can afford it, pay it.
This situation won’t go on forever & he needs to enjoy the time with his family while his father is still around.
Or you could say no, upset the apple cart & it will be held against you for being the awkward one.

It sounds absolutely lovely that they have a close bond & are lucky enough to be able to all get together in the family home. How great for all the kids too. We've just had to downsize my dad and we've all suffered from it badly. Your children will learn a great lesson about how to respect & look after older people that you might benefit from yourself one day :) If you can afford it, then do it. A place that brings family together is an important place.

What about the lesson the kids really need to learn?

About financial planning and responsibility?
I'd prioritise that over keeping him cushty in a 6 bedroom house.

A six bedroomed house isn't affordable or practical for a retired pensioner, sounds like it's what suits his family is more important than what's best for him.

I don't see why he can't downsize. Just say no. He could easily downsize and still have people over for dinner.

I think I would be telling DH if he puts his siblings wishes above your family's financial security he can move in with his Dad because your marriage won't survive...

I'm sorry but I cant afford to live in a 6 bedroom house, so I don't. He cant either so he should move within his means. He could get a lovely 2 bed with large garden which he could build a huge conservatory, enough to sit everyone round for meet ups. And have cash left over for living/emergencies.

Yeah yeah, big bad MIL spent all the money and he just sat passively around, which means he is a good guy and she was awful and somehow it is now other people that have to pay his bills. Riiiiight. I can't help thinking this is such a load of bollocks - a family story they tell themselves to avoid seeing the truth whatever that may be.

@justlliloleme

You can afford it, pay it. This situation won’t go on forever & he needs to enjoy the time with his family while his father is still around. Or you could say no, upset the apple cart & it will be held against you for being the awkward one.

Potentially the situation could go on for another 30 odd years! This is a man in his mid 60's, the majority of posters on here will still be working at 67 or later.

And maybe the OP can afford an additional £50 a month outgoings (on top of the "mandatory" costs of the bi-weekly meals), but as nobody has yet done an audit of her FILs outgoings they don't know yet a) if this is actually needed or b) whether this would be enough to cover his additional needs. Needs over and above the income that also needs to be reviewed in case he's missing out on claiming benefits.

There's also the practicality of a single person living in a 6 bedroom house, with the maintenance needed. I have arthritis in my back (common in older people) and a dodgy leg, and find maiontaining my 3 bed house a pain (literally!).

The FIL has not asked anyone to pay his bills.

The FIL has not refused to move.

The FIL mentioned in passing that the bills in his 6 bed house are a bit much for him as a retiree.

Somebody in this family is up to something that's got nothing to do with what FIL wants or needs.

Something is not adding up financially.

The mortgage was paid off more than a decade ago. MIL was a big spender but she died a few years ago. FIL has recently retired.

So what was FIL spending his salary on between MIL dying and him retiring? A remortgage to cover MIL's spending? Loans she took out? Not food as he gets two meals a week cooked for him and I bet they leave him all the leftovers / open packets. What type of job did he do and did he work for one co for a long time? If so he should have a private pension.

Either he is a tightwad in the extreme and is looking to get more money out of the kids so he doesn't have to spend his own money yet. Or MILs spending was way bigger than you know about and there has been a remortgage / equity release which he was and may still be paying off.

I bet the children have this plan to stump up money to help him stay there without having an inkling about the true situation because you would have to stop the banter to find out.

Call me cynical but I reckon one of the kids wants the inheritance from the house. They know FIL is shit with money so if he gets a nice little flat near the shops, the library and the doctors then he will spend the remaining lump sum on shit and they'll get no inheritance. Hence the utterly daft reasons being made up for why they must shut down their dad even starting to think about downsizing.

I'm in the downsizing category. Are there any two bedroom bungalows in your area? The fashion in houses at the moment seems to be open-plan kitchen/diners. This would mean that there would still be space for the family to get together round the table but much easier for your father-in-law to manage. Would it be possible to reduce the whole family get togethers to once a month? Your father-in-law could then go to different family members' homes to Sunday lunch every week as far as possible.

@starfishmummy

There's a lot of people talking behind each others' backs, forming alliances and playing people off against each other. But that's for another thread...

Yes. There is more going on here than we have been told, maybe its even being kept from the OP.

someone has their eye on inheriting a 6 bed house and doesnt want it to be sold and for their father to spend the cash.

Funnily enough I imagined the siblings all reluctant to let any one of them spend time alone with the DF in case they talked themselves into better position in the will so they all have to turn up together and make sure he sees them/their kids. Not so much that they want to go, bit more that they're concerned their siblings would shaft them if they didn't!

I've always been of the opinion that parents bring you up to live independently and an adult child should not be expected to support a parent. I'm close to my parents, but would hate to have to go round theirs twice a week, every week and all this other guilt laden crap. It's not fair on your own family for starters and everyone needs space and time on their own and with their own children.

I think the pp who stated someone's got their eye on inheriting the house is right. That's it in a nutshell. That's why I posted that if anyone moves in with FIL there'll be a wrangle over the inheritance because whoever lived with him will want a bigger share and the other siblings will either try to steamroller this through when someone disagrees or they'll all fall out.

At 65, unless he has bad health issues, he needs to step up and sort things out for his children's sakes.

Why not sell it and buy a 1 or 2 bed bungalow and use some of the profit to build a big conservatory that seats 14? Or sell it and build a big dining room or conservatory on the house of one of his 14 children?

Good points Choux

Goodness Op, it all sounds terrible. Absolutely no way should you be paying his bills.

He's not old he's 65. If he lives another 20 yrs you'll be supplementing him to the tune of £24k.
Then what happens when the washing machine needs replacing, he needs new carpets, the car breaks down? He can't afford it can he?

No way would I sacrifice my money that is needed for my young family because a young FIL doesn't want to move out of an excessive 6 bed house.
Why should your family go without to facilitate this - bonkers!!

Liquidate assets if you can't afford to live. As for siblings - they can't dictate to you.

Since the op's father in law is only 65 years old and I am assuming of sound mind the outcome will depend on his decision going forward.
He is not an elderly person incapable of making decisions at all so I am confused by all the posters agreeing he must downsize. Clearly it is not that straightforward.
It is wrong to assume there will be an inheritance these days when you take in to account the costs of care homes.

Surely he needs a one or two bed house with large rooms? And not particularly large at that: five people is hardly an enormous gathering.

As an aside: could you move in to his house as you need more space?

Why on earth can't he downsize and live within his means. I can't think of any reason why a single person needs a 6-bed house.

Sorry: don’t know where I got five from.