Help! I don't want to pay FIL's bills!

[Blurp]

The background: DH has 3 siblings who live nearby. MIL died a few years ago, so FIL lives alone in the house DH grew up in. They describe themselves as "very close" and have always gone to FIL's twice a week for dinner (just the siblings and their kids, not partners). When MIL was alive, she cooked; since her death, they take it in turns to cook, so DH cooks once every other week. This costs about £25 each time, so about £50 per month.

FIL has recently retired. He has absolutely no savings (MIL was a HUGE spender and just spent it all), and gets only a state pension. He's realised that he can't afford to pay for all the bills. The house has 6 bedrooms, so it's huge, expensive Council tax, expensive to heat etc.

In my head, the solution is that he needs to move somewhere smaller and more manageable. However, DH & siblings are not in favour of this because then they wouldn't be able to go round all at once, certainly not twice a week.

His brother has suggested that they all chip in each month to cover the bills - about £50 each. So including the cost of cooking once a fortnight, we'd be forking out about £100 a month for this.

We could afford it, but we'd be sacrificing other things. For instance, we'd like to move to a bigger house (the kids would love some outdoor space). But that would be very tight financially if we had this extra money to pay each month. We'd also like to start saving some money for the kids each month too - £25 each would build up to a decent amount.

DH agrees with me in principle, but is being put under pressure by his siblings. He said he'd feel bad continuing to go to dinner twice a week if he wasn't paying his share. But he also doesn't want FIL to have to move, thereby possibly meaning that they can no longer all visit together.

There was a vague suggestion at one stage that if FIL didn't have enough space, they'd all take it in turns to go round each others' houses, so we'd host every other week. This won't work because both me and one of the other siblings partners work from home and it would be too disruptive (and anyway, I don't really want a big crowd of people in the house once a fortnight). Again, I feel like I'm getting in the way of the plans.

Any suggestions? Is it unfair of me to say no to us paying money to FIL each month? Or is it reasonable to expect him to live within his means, even if that means moving house?

His house is large and extended. Could you split it into two properties? That way he could stay in his hakf and the other half could be rented or sold and the family could take care of these arrangements for him. This would obviously be subject to planning. Which may not allow but I’m trying to think outside the box here!

Or rent out his driveway if he lives in an area where parking for commuters is an issue?

I don’t understand why a 6 bedroom property is required to host one adult all the time and four adult children plus kids a couple of times a week? That could be done quite easily in a home that everyone else isn’t funding for themselves - the absolute nerve and tone-deaf ridiculousness that he cannot host unless in a huge house that is 5 times the size he needs and probably twice the size of an average family home is actually making me really cross.

Would I help my dad in his dotage if he needed it? Of course I would. Would I help him to the detriment of my own family if he had assets he didn’t want to liquidate for his own selfish and ridicule reasons? No I would not.

I must be particularly annoyed this evening because this has spectacularly irritated me.

You could tell the family here is £650 the cost of a years food, see you around. I could not drag my children to a house two evenings a week, they would rebel.

@Elieza

His house is large and extended. Could you split it into two properties? That way he could stay in his hakf and the other half could be rented or sold and the family could take care of these arrangements for him. This would obviously be subject to planning. Which may not allow but I’m trying to think outside the box here!

Or rent out his driveway if he lives in an area where parking for commuters is an issue?

Those are both decent ideas, but I can't see him going for splitting the house in two (it's also a weird layout, with bits added on all over the place... I can't think how it would split, though I'm sure an architect could have fun with it!).

Now that he's retired, his own car is in his driveway all day, and there wouldn't be space for another without blocking him in.

If he won't downsize, you can get income equity release rather than a lump sum to supplement income per month.

Defo. It’s frankly bonkers that he lives alone in a 6 bedroom house. 6 bedrooms! Madness!

My uneducated take on this... Is that he is recently retired, no longer has a wife to run around after him, his bereaved kids stepped in. I reckon he will find his feet soon enough, pick up a merry widow, or maybe younger woman with kids. Then hell move on.

Widowed men don't tend to stay single as long as widowed women.

Update us in a year....

OP,
If you start contributing to his household, the only way that bill is going up.

Your husband needs to be told that ye cannot afford it. End of.

The siblings that got years of free childcare and have comfortable double income households may feel differently.

The whole set up of tip toeing around a 65 year old man living in a house he can't afford sounds batshit.

There is no way I would be sacrificing my family's needs for someone like this.

Your child are young and if 100 is an amount that would make a difference to YOUR household finances, then you patently can't afford it.

Don't be sucked into a financial vortex.

YOUR children come first.

YADNBU

Why don’t you suggest that your husbands three siblings give you £100 a month each ? Which you can use ( Plus your husbands £100 ) to buy a bigger house for your own family and then your husband can host these twice a week get togethers.

You can just go out with friends on these Two evenings a week. It would be worth the slight inconvenience for the bigger house.

This is absolutely bonkers. The long and short of it is that you live within your means. FIL should downsize. There's no way I would contribute to the bills while he's living in a house which could be home to a large family without the funds to pay for it himself.

Having someone move in with him will lead to problems down the line with siblings wrangling over who should get what share of his estate. He should sell the house and have a comfortable life using the proceeds of the sale after buying somewhere more manageable.

Oh wow @Blurp how has this happened for so long? I understand the need of family but this is excessive and really interrupting to normal life! I would think that once a month is still a little excessive (but a bit more understandable)

My in laws are of the belief that "family is important" forgetting that actually DH has his own family now. It's always "we must see each other as much as possible" when really it's not practical.

My own parents actually have a "we don't need to see you, but are always here" approach and it is much more relaxed and welcoming. Less forced. My parents paid the majority of my wedding many years ago and actually moved to be closer to us when we were ready for children to help out with childcare. Yet they never say "you have to make time for us" and I find that really precious. It means they can been in DC lives at times that suit us all, and we're not forced into planning something every week to see them because "it's important"

I can imagine my BIL telling DH that he "has to help" pay for whatever PIL need in the future, but we will firmly be putting our feet down. I'm sorry, but I don't see how you can hope for your kids to grow up and then spend their adult life subsidising you as well as their own families.

This needs to be a firm no OP. As someone else mentioned, if he had planned ahead but then had an unlucky stroke of fate, I could genuinely see helping out in some way, but I would not be paying for the bills for someone else so they can have a house twice the size of mine for one person. Especially since they didn't look after their money for it, why should you have to penny pinch now?

I feel sorry for your FIL to be alone, however surely it would be more beneficial time and space wise for everyone if each family did one night a week and then every few months a big sibling trip to the pub?

@ALLIS0N

Why don’t you suggest that your husbands three siblings give you £100 a month each ? Which you can use ( Plus your husbands £100 ) to buy a bigger house for your own family and then your husband can host these twice a week get togethers.

You can just go out with friends on these Two evenings a week. It would be worth the slight inconvenience for the bigger house.

YES! This would definitely be a better plan she also wouldn't need to go out because she could just go to a different wing of the house!

@AnotherUserNC thank you, your situation sounds similar to mine. My family are much more relaxed, but absolutely there for each other.

DH's have to see each other all the time, but everything with them is very rigid, and to be honest, quite pressured.

It's all too messy to start off with. It's fine helping out but to offer long term financial help is another level
Bollocks to that.

I understand what you mean OP, certain parts of our family are like this, very deferential to the point of weirdness and it's hard to pinpoint exactly why or where it came from.

My tuppenceworth is that you would do well to stay out of the contributing money for his upkeep (even if you cheerfully facilitate DH doing cooking once a fortnight) as what might start as £50/ month is likely to escalate significantly. It will be easier to not start than to get further down the road and try to extricate yourselves later.

I would also be putting my foot down about the DC going twice a week to such a weird setup - once they get bigger and have their own activities to go to the 2 nights/week at these gatherings will eat further into family time. I can see why you're probably not keen to go yourself though!

Can you try to talk some sense into DH so that even if he is out voted by the siblings about downsizing, he isn't going to commit you to paying for 1/4 of your FILs outgoings?

I see a future scenario where there's a huge falling out after FIL dies tbh, and I'd be trying to put a bit of distance between DH and the siblings now!

I have been in a similar situation. My husband died and I was left alone in a big house. I could barely afford it while I was working but then I was made redundant at retirement age.

It never entered my head to expect my children to pay me an allowance so that I could stay in a large house. I'm an adult and can be expected to react to changed circumstances.

Instead I sold up and bought a more modest home in a cheaper area. I'm much happier in it and can easily maintain it. I also have money to live off, and from the sale, I was able to offer my children a good chunk towards a deposit for their homes.

Surely this sort of outcome is better for everyone?

[quote Blurp]@AnotherUserNC thank you, your situation sounds similar to mine. My family are much more relaxed, but absolutely there for each other.

DH's have to see each other all the time, but everything with them is very rigid, and to be honest, quite pressured.[/quote]
Literally my set up. It’s so much nicer to be able to relax in family company than always on edge and forced! Or getting told “you can’t leave yet, you need to make time for family” when really I need to make time for my health and sanity!!

@Queenoftheashes

In my family my aunt moved her family in with grandparents. Worked well in a close family - are any of the siblings up for moving in?

This would solve the week want a bigger house’ problem but would it cause problems when FIL passed away?

[quote Blurp]@AnotherUserNC thank you, your situation sounds similar to mine. My family are much more relaxed, but absolutely there for each other.

DH's have to see each other all the time, but everything with them is very rigid, and to be honest, quite pressured.[/quote]
It’s actually the worst. To be forced into doing something and not wanting to say your family deals with it in a better way but actually, you don’t have children for them to be your keepers, they have their own life and I find it absurd that all four of them do this twice a week, I can’t believe it.

@Blurp

For those asking how he afforded the house in the first place, he had a decent enough job, bought the house as a 3-bed (I think) back when houses were much cheaper, and then extended it. It's one of those extensions with stairs everywhere as well.

He's mid-60s, in good health, so could easily (hopefully) live for a couple of decades yet.

In terms of the DC having a great relationship with their cousins, they don't really, due to the mix of ages. The oldest cousin bosses the others around; DS can't be bothered with it and apparently just takes himself off into the play room or wherever he can get space. DD tags along but isn't that interested in playing with them.

To clarify, a combination of being teachers and working flexitime means they are able to turn up at FIL's in time for dinner at 4.30/5ish. The other outlaws are working at that time, so it's not so much that we're not invited, we just can't make it there in time. Though the few times I've gone, the siblings don't talk to me; they just "banter" each other for a couple of hours and I just sit there. Any attempt I make at conversation is fairly quickly shot down by the banter. It's pretty tedious.

He's in his MID SIXTIES??? Fucking hell, outright.

This needs a firm hand. He could live for decades and shouldn't really have retired this young. Was he forced out of whatever job he was doing? Or just thought it was his time, regardless of his financial position???

That is unbelievable. He sounds an irresponsible baby and I'd stamp on this hard. He could live for decades. He clearly doesn't mind or maybe see the imposition he is putting on people because he is surrounded by enablers.

Downsize immediately and tell him to get a part time job.

@woollyheart

I have been in a similar situation. My husband died and I was left alone in a big house. I could barely afford it while I was working but then I was made redundant at retirement age.

It never entered my head to expect my children to pay me an allowance so that I could stay in a large house. I'm an adult and can be expected to react to changed circumstances.

Instead I sold up and bought a more modest home in a cheaper area. I'm much happier in it and can easily maintain it. I also have money to live off, and from the sale, I was able to offer my children a good chunk towards a deposit for their homes.

Surely this sort of outcome is better for everyone?

That’s because you’re mothering correctly. Your children should never be expected to pay for parents, surely?

He needs to downsize as managing a 6 bedroom house would become impossible .The bedrooms not used would become cold and damp .You need the money for your family he had years to save for retirement and he should have budgeted and refused his wife money it sounds like she wore the trousers and got what she eanted

There's a lot of people talking behind each others' backs, forming alliances and playing people off against each other. But that's for another thread...

Yes. There is more going on here than we have been told, maybe its even being kept from the OP.

someone has their eye on inheriting a 6 bed house and doesnt want it to be sold and for their father to spend the cash.

What your family gets in return is worth way more than £100. Siblings and their children spending regular time together, growing up together with their granddad. And you get some you time.

If you can, I'd say do it. I'd rather my children had close family ties than savings - worth more in the long run

I really feel for you OP. We are in similar situation since FIL passed away 7 years ago. We have to contribute to MIL each month as do DH 2 sisters to help live in the lifestyle she’s been accustomed to. If DH refused he would’ve been written out of the will and at one point in the last 6 years we were on income support and still expected to pay up each month.

I'm nearly 50. I guess your husband's siblings must be young. But FUCK if I'd be supporting some feckless 65 year old.