The joy has been sucked out of everything

[supadoopa]

Let me start by saying I’m in Scotland so this isn’t about masks per se, but about the whole silly dance we are being made to do in order to go about our lives at the moment.

I went to a shopping centre today and won't be back.

It’s the first time I’ve worn a mask for any longer than a quick run into the local coop. I was probably in the centre for an hour and a half but there was sweat pouring down my neck. I felt suffocated and silenced. Hated it.

My baby looked at me like I was a monster and my toddler couldn’t hear me when I talked.

But it wasn’t just masks that were the issue. There was a ludicrous one way system, which makes absolutely no sense to me if we are wearing masks and social distancing. Then every shop had a makeshift entry and exit and their own one way system which no one was observing.

At every turn I was being monitored by security guards, eyeballing me in anticipation of a wrongdoing, ready to pounce.

Almost every shop had a guard on duty forcing you to rub gel on your hands and that of my child before entering.

There were queues everywhere. All but one set of toilets shut, so queue for that too, and toilets themselves as dirty as ever because so many people using the same ones and no cleaning.

Inexplicably in most shops all but one set of tills were shut, again forcing people to congregate in long queues.

All the restaurants were again inexplicably closed apart from, yep, McDonalds and Costa. Both under small enclaves at the back of the centre. But in them you are allowed to take your mask off and eat off a table more or less. But in the main, high roofed wide open walkways of the centre, the mask must go back on.

The shops had little stock.

When I dared approach an M&S assistant to ask for a size (with a visor on like all the rest of the assistants at an angle that perfectly channels their exhalations directly at the person they’re talking too) I was barked at as if I was a naughty schoolgirl to the extent that I put the item back on the rack and walked out without buying anything.

Does anyone else think this is all utterly ludicrous?

Shops will not survive this.

We are all adults with our own minds and perfectly able to manage our selves. Why make masks mandatory if we then have to do all this makeshift posturing to appear to be avoiding each other when really we are being herded closer together.

As someone who you might consider a “hobby shopper” as in it’s one of my pastimes (and I’m not interested in any opinions about having a better hobby, if there weren’t millions like me there wouldn’t be any shops at all). I’m someone who will browse and buy, will pick up bits I don’t really need but just want. I will spend my money happily- if the experience gives me pleasure.

But now I think it’s going to be online for me. I won’t be back at the shopping centre. I won’t be visiting our city centre either as it’s just the same.

@SockYarn another one thinking bingo!

Shops are actually told by the government that they have to facilitate social distancing, so 2 metres apart, put things in place to protect staff and have hand sanitiser available. What they have not been told, is to clean and keep cleaning. This is absolute madness. So, you can walk into a supermarket, touch the milk shelf along with the other 1,000 people who have touched it that day and then go for a wee in their unclean toilets and touch the doors etc. No one is cleaning the front of the car park ticket booths, no one is cleaning the lift buttons either. If they do, they do it after everywhere is shut. They should be doing it constantly throughout the day. Then, after wandering around this germ fest, you take your mask off and touch your face thinking everything is tickety boo. I know this because I have questioned it in the chain I work for.

I watched people in my local town yesterday wandering in and out of butchers, WH Smith, green grocers, bakery, Boots and small boutiques. It was mask on, shop, mask off, hold in hand...repeat. So, basically touching your face much more than before.....

I'm out too. I am no longer shopping in malls or places longer than a quick pint of milk and forgotten ingredient.

To all those saying it's the norm in lots of areas of Asia so stop moaning and get on with it, kindly fuck off. A lot of things are normal elsewhere but that does not mean I have to like it or embrace it as my normal. ok then - you don’t like it so we’ll all pander to the ‘but I don’t want to’ stumpy feet brigade cos they wanna shop as their hobby

We went to Chorley which is just a little market town and it was really nice . Maybe better because it's a market town ? Everyone was wearing masks and you can eat outside in the market the tables were screened off like little tents . The big shopping malls will suffer more I think.

ok then - you don’t like it so we’ll all pander to the ‘but I don’t want to’ stumpy feet brigade cos they wanna shop as their hobby

No one is pandering to anyone. People are saying shopping has become so unpleasant that they won’t go anymore which is a perfectly legitimate choice. It’s true. It’s a miserable and joyless thing now, so I won’t be going. It has fck all to do with it being my “hobby” lol

I would feel uncomfortable making an appointment to browse too, @rookiemere. Of course if you're the only customer in hte shop and have had to reserve your slot you're going to feel obliged to buy - it's the Tupperware Party scenario when you come away with a whole pile of storage boxes you didn't need because you felt you couldn't leave empty handed.

It's the same as our charity shop forcing people to book appointments to drop things off - some will, many won't bother. And that's all down to the fact that the Charity Retail Association has decreed that we quarantine all donations for at least 48 hours. We have so little space and just can't manage that, so have to limit stuff coming in. And of course the less stuff we have coming in, the less there is to actually sell...

I'm hoping that requirement is dropped very swiftly. Because the chances of picking up covid from a book or a donated jigsaw is zero. All clothes are steamed and most stuff has been hanging around in people's attics/sheds for weeks anyway - people who are incredibly unlikely to have "it" as cases in this area are very few and far between and mostly in care homes.

@rookiemere you're absolutely right. I do feel the basic hand hygiene message has been forgotten. It was ridiculous enough that it had to be pointed out to people in the first place. Now masks are de rigeur, despite there being no decisive controlled studying proving their efficacy. As you say many people will just reuse disposable ones, not wash cloth ones and many people will not wear them properly. Also yesterday I stood in a shop queue wear people appeared to have given up on social distancing.

The thing is you only care about others when it suits your narrative. Because you don't give two shiny shits about ops wellbeing do you?

Would you like me to tell you what the ‘greater good’ means? Do you even know? It is weighing up of small sacrifices that we personally have to make, so that much larger impacts for others are avoided.

OP = tiny sacrifice. 1.5 hours of inconvenience and she could have shopped online if she was that upset.

OP said that she had zero sympathy for shop workers as in her company 200 people were made redundant and they could join the back of the queue. That is pretty mean. She was obviously not one of the ones being made redundant and can still afford to go out and shop.

Greater good simply means caring enough to do something for others other than yourself. It’s simple. It’s not a cult. It’s not holier than thou. It’s just being a decent human being.

@TrustTheGeneGenie you would rather attack me and seem to revel in it, and ridicule ‘mask wearing do gooding’ and saying because I even dared to say that mask wearing might, you know, help someone not get Covid19 including a shop worker, that I must be in some kind of religious cult. Grow up people. I mean, come on. Just take some responsibility.

Yes it’s shit. And I hate that we don’t seem to be able to acknowledge that wearing masks is unpleasant and uncomfortable without someone chipping in about “try working in the NHS” or “not as uncomfortable as being DEAD” or similar hyperbole.

I will wear a mask if I have to. I don’t have to be over the moon about it. It just means I’ll avoid as many situations as I can that involve them - online shopping and walking instead of taking public transport.

Actually, @Autviaminveniamautfaciam we have been told to clean. Our charity shop is opening an hour later every morning and closing 30 minutes earlier to facilitate cleaning. All shelves have to be wiped down every morning. Till area cleaned, door handles - we even have to sanitise the sanitiser bottle.

What you can't do is have a member or staff or volunteer following every customer around with a cloth and anti-bac spray, immediately sanitising everything they touch.

Totally over the top.

Totally agree OP, I went with my teenage daughter last weekend to a big shopping centre to buy her some clothes that she desperately needed, she’s in an awkward stage of being between kids and women’s sizes so ordering online can be a pain....was I sorry! It was a nightmare, massive queue outside with no social distancing, people jumping the queue etc, stopping people as soon as they stepped off the escalator from the car park which led to dangerous people traffic jams on a moving escalator.

When we finally got inside, there was a queue for literally every single shop, then my daughter was literally barked at for holding a pair of jeans up against her to gauge size.

I understand that shops are given weak guidance and they’ve had to interpret and implement in the best way they can but it’s so stressful to have to live life like this.

Don’t get me started on having to book everything in advance, there is no spontaneity in life anymore!

On a plus side my DH said the men's toilets were absolutely spotless. Also the parking was free . Amazon have already made a killing - Jeff Bozos is now the world's richest man .

@IceCreamSummer20

The thing is you only care about others when it suits your narrative. Because you don't give two shiny shits about ops wellbeing do you?

Would you like me to tell you what the ‘greater good’ means? Do you even know? It is weighing up of small sacrifices that we personally have to make, so that much larger impacts for others are avoided.

OP = tiny sacrifice. 1.5 hours of inconvenience and she could have shopped online if she was that upset.

OP said that she had zero sympathy for shop workers as in her company 200 people were made redundant and they could join the back of the queue. That is pretty mean. She was obviously not one of the ones being made redundant and can still afford to go out and shop.

Greater good simply means caring enough to do something for others other than yourself. It’s simple. It’s not a cult. It’s not holier than thou. It’s just being a decent human being.

@TrustTheGeneGenie you would rather attack me and seem to revel in it, and ridicule ‘mask wearing do gooding’ and saying because I even dared to say that mask wearing might, you know, help someone not get Covid19 including a shop worker, that I must be in some kind of religious cult. Grow up people. I mean, come on. Just take some responsibility.

I do understand what the greater good means but I'm not sure you do. You're only considering covid when you say that.

Maybe it's not a tiny sacrifice to op. Maybe it's quite a big sacrifice. Consider that what you think is nothing, is actually quite a big thing to someone else?

I agree that work is different. I have to wear a mask at work. It's fine. Its my career and in all circumstances sometimes you have to do things you don't want to at work. If I hated it that much, id find a different job. You have a choice in the career you have. Nobody is being forced to work in an environment they dislike.

You don't care about others though do you? You only care about covid.

Nothing you've said suggests you care about others. You simply care about covid.

Others are suffering in hundreds of different ways. Your posts don't suggest you're doing anything at all for them.

you don’t like it so we’ll all pander to the ‘but I don’t want to’ stumpy feet brigade cos they wanna shop as their hobby

There is an entire industry, the leisure industry, which is build around people's enjoyment of shopping, gyms, holidays, eating out, entertainment and so on. I don't personally like shopping, for example, but I do love eating out. If eating out spontaneously and several times a week becomes difficult and not enjoyable, I just won't do it.

Of course excess consumerism has its down side, but if the entire leisure and entertainment industry starts shedding jobs, that's a whole lot more unemployed people.

The economy is creaking already.

I am not for propping up the economy vs Covid-19 lives, I'm saying that perhaps a better way can be found to get some enjoyment back into that sector. Apparently 1/3 of leisure centres remain closed as councils can't afford to open them back up again. Swimming for children is going to be a luxury again instead of something pretty much every child can do.

It's not about sucking up mask wearing, I'm happy to suck it up if the overall tone of things is upbeat, enjoyable and I have fun when I'm out. At the moment, that's not the case and many things are still closed/restricted entry/have to book in advance. None of these things are 'hard' in comparison to working on a Covid-19 ward, but they are massively affecting footfall, the economy, and therefore how much money we have coming in for the NHS and people's poorer health (as we know that poorer health is connected with poverty, disadvantage and being unemployed for starters).

I for one hope these measures put off people who enjoy shopping. Pick up "bits" (Christ I hate that word) and just contribute to land fill. Buy what you need, save the planet.

I had to wear my mask for 45 minutes at my eye test .Felt hot but coped OK .I do think the pleasure has been sucked out of shopping though .Its nice to browse ,pick things up and put them down without feeling you are being judged! Online food shop for me and just popping to the shops for short trips now .The demise of the high street I think !

Yes it’s shit. And I hate that we don’t seem to be able to acknowledge that wearing masks is unpleasant and uncomfortable without someone chipping in about “try working in the NHS” or “not as uncomfortable as being DEAD” or similar hyperbole

It’s weird isn’t it? It was the same during lockdown, anyone who dared say they were finding it really hard, or that their mental health was suffering was screamed at for being selfish and that they didn’t care PEOPLE ARE DYING.
It’s OK for people to find something hard or unpleasant ffs. There is a very weird pious-ness on here I’ve noticed that unless you are as miserable as possible and glad about it, it means you are infecting people. As if your mood somehow transmits Covid. The most pious would brag about how they hadn’t been shopping for 12 weeks and were existing on grass from the garden and rain water because THEY CARE about people dying. Bizarre.

Is the greater good avoiding the spread of covid or helping the economy though?

In most areas now, there really isn't much covid out in the community, so the masks aren't protecting anyone from anything. People have been shopping in supermarkets throughout, even when infection rates were at their highest. Has there been any evidence that the kind of fleeting contact you have in a shop creates a hot spot? Has there been higher than average infection in supermarket workers, for example? I don't believe there's any evidence that it's being transmitted in any big way in shops.

I'm not a hobby shopper but that's what most big retail spaces are for and how they do most of their business. A business which has effectively been closed.

Even if people decide, actually the masks and restrictions are necessary and they're still happy to go to the shop, no one is going to spend the same time browsing, so no impulse buys. Even those who still go shopping will get what they went for and go home.

That's the other thing about shopping- you can't try anything on.
So in the scenario where if I did book a slot at the clothes boutique, if I did buy something I'd be unsure if it fitted or not. Then if it didn't would I need to make another appointment to bring it back?
Much easier just to shop online or avoid shopping altogether.

I find one way systems in shops and shopping malls really frustrating especially when people just amble along slowly and then stop blocking the walkway in groups so you can't get past. We need an overtaking lane

The Asian countries are generally used to demonstrate the efficacy of masks. But what if their lower infection rates are mostly down to greater awareness of basic hygiene, which is what I suspect is the case ?

It’s so funny to read the stampy foot “I don’t like anyone telling me what to do even if it for a good reason” brigade saying they’re never going shopping again when they’re the ones who see mindlessly shopping for sweatshop made crap in malls as a hobby that they are desperate to get back to brigade. Maybe they’ll discover proper hobbies when they finish throwing their toys out of the pray and the planet can breathe a little sigh of relief

[quote MissEliza]@rookiemere you're absolutely right. I do feel the basic hand hygiene message has been forgotten. It was ridiculous enough that it had to be pointed out to people in the first place. Now masks are de rigeur, despite there being no decisive controlled studying proving their efficacy. As you say many people will just reuse disposable ones, not wash cloth ones and many people will not wear them properly. Also yesterday I stood in a shop queue wear people appeared to have given up on social distancing.[/quote]
There is mounting evidence that mask wearing has an impact significant enough to make it worthwhile wearing them. There are few controlled studies partly because it is not ethical to give covid19 to people but also partly because there is so much growing evidence from countries and places where mask wearing is usual. It is evidence enough for me, and I am a scientist and have read the reviews and the papers.

I don’t think you can blame mask wearing for stopping social distancing. I think there has been no good public education updates - in a way that is really clear. I’ve never seen such a messy load of messages to be honest which is why so many people are arguing about social distancing and mask wearing, and forgetting to wash their hands. There is a wealth of expertise in how to get public health messages across, yet these are not being used.

Also mounting evidence of transmission indoors person to person being the main source of infection, and airborne transmission being part of this. In summary it helps to reduce the spread by:

• keeping social distancing as much as possible, 2 metres is preferable. One way systems in shops do help this.
• Reducing the time that you spend in any indoor spaces outside of your home - because of recirculating of air inside with low or no ventilation, there is a higher risk of the virus being passed on. So try not to spend a long time in malls or shops, or in other people’s houses.
• wearing a mask - if you have covid19 this does really cut down how many people you pass it onto - many studies have shown this. It is less effective if the person with covid19 is not wearing a mask but you are, however it is still worthwhile. IF as people have said, you wear it correctly and take it off carefully and wash or dispose.
• wearing gloves is not seen as effective
• washing hands regularly is still effective
• high risk places are those with low or no ventilation, lots of people, less social distancing and also lots of ‘aerosols’ such as gyms, choirs (singing), dance classes - better outdoors if possible.

I agree wholeheartedly about the fun and spontaneity being removed from shopping / leisure. I went shopping this week and with the masks, queuing, sanitiser, visors, screens, not being able to try on clothes or really even touch them - I understand why, of course I do, but it’s no longer a pleasurable experience.

Masks are sweaty and steam my glasses up. I do accept there’s a need to wear them but it will actively reduce the amount of times I go out by probably 70-80%. Back to the essential weekly shop for me and buy anything else online. Which is sad as I don’t want to lose our high streets but seems a circular dilemma.

@Downwardfacingdoggy perhaps you could draw up a list of Approved Hobbies?

And a recovery plan for the economy.