My 9 year old called us all the C word. Repeatedly.

[TheKidsGoneFeral]

First up, addressing where the hell he learned that word from, because we never say it. My teenager didn't know that word until he was in secondary school. My 9yo is best friends and been playing with a child who has a difficult home life, has a SW, and has a bit of a sweaty family. I might be wrong but this might be where it came from. We really love his friend, so I need to have a think how to move forward with this because a few things have happened now. But setting that aside for a minute.

I have a 1 year old, his naps are changing, this means very occasionally (very very occasionally!) I will misjudge his day time nap and he won't go to bed until 9pmish (usually 7).

9yo DS goes to bed 8ish, he wants a later bedtime and I agreed but I want 7 days of good behaviour first. No answering back, no being rude, no kicking off at bed time.

He's been great, apart from last night (day 5 of 7). Toddler ds was downstairs and 9yo was going absolutely crazy, he hates his life, why aren't we normal, he gets treated like a 3yo, we're all cunts, he hates us.

Nice.

The day before we had just bought him a bike that cost us £100 (second hand but still!) and he got passed down my iPhone as well.

In response to the disgusting behaviour, the bike, phone, and freedom have gone.
I want them gone for a week.

Am I taking it too far?

I'm going to anticipate some questions
"Why not just let him stay up with the toddler?"

Two reasons, if he doesn't get enough sleep, the next day he becomes a hyperactive nightmare that's very difficult to deal with. This makes the following nighttime even worse. School are suggesting new has ADHD, I'm not convinced but we are following that route in case he does.

Secondly, he was supposed to do 7 days of good behaviour to earn a later bedtime. This was part of it. Not kicking off. I can't just give him a later bedtime, his behaviour has been a bit rubbish so he needed to earn it.

Thirdly, he wakes up 5-6am, whether he goes to bed at 8 or 9, and we notice that a short amount of sleep effects his behaviour (I realise 8 seems very early to some, but he reads his books for a bit).

Any advice?

Sweary, not sweaty 🙄

If he is usually great, what were the circumstances that led to this outburst? I think you need to unpick that.

He isn't usually great. I'm surprised you got that impression from my post.

I don't have any advise as my DD is only 3 weeks old 😂 but just to say, most kids go through patches like this. When I was six I learned a sweat word and used it ALOT! My mother would freak out and I learned it got a response so continued. My dad on the other hand told me calmly that it was a bad word and we don't say that, but no other response. I quickly stopped using it around him as I got no response and it lost its 'fun'.
Good luck with whichever route you decide to take and don't forget you're not the only parents that have/ will go through this! 🥰

He was great for 4 days.

That's it. We implemented the "behave yourself for 7 days" because it's been really difficult with him recently.

I can see why he doesn’t wish to go to bed before his sibling and o also think eight is a bit early, personally instead of continuing the war fare, show him your capable of listening, talk to him, extend his bed time to nine.

Right now you’re fighting fire with fire and he’s learning it from you. Not the words, but the behaviour, show him how to talk, how to compromise, how to discuss and the behaviour will get better, not just do as I say or I’ll punish you.

Firstly, I don't believe your oldest didn't know the word cunt until secondary school. Secondly, not sure I like you blaming the child with a social worker for teaching your child the word, especially when you have an older child. Thirdly, your punishment sounds totally appropriate BUT I would suggest that your 9 year old may be struggling more than the usual with his emotional regulation, in which case 7 days of good behaviour might be imposed for him to achieve.
I think you need to break things down into smaller, more achievable chunks. Take everything tech away And let him earn it back. Or earn time on it each day.
Don't take the bike away. Exercise is one of the best things for a child who is emotionally disregulated. Taking away an exercise option is counter productive.

The two things that stand out to me is 7 days of good behaviour for a 9 year old is an unobtainable goal so make it more achievable target for him.
Also if he has an iPhone then it’s possible he is accessing unsuitable things in there which may explain swearing ? He’s very young for an iPhone.

Might be impossible for him to achieve

OP why did you give a 9 year old an iPhone?!!

I'm not sure what your main concern is as you mention a few different issues but with regards to him saying the C word I agree with you taking away privelleges.

Sorry, but you read like a very unreasonable excuse for a parent and I feel sorry for your child tbh

In what way?

I don't think you did anything 'wrong' at all, it's hard to parent at the best of times, let alone Corona.

I agree with everyone- a week of 'good behaviour' for a child who may have ADHD is really not an achievable goal, in that he wasn't being rewarded for the four good days, only punished when (inevitably) he wasn't great. Actually four good days is four good days and it would be better to focus on rewarding the good days for starters.

Now he knows that basically however good he is, it won't last (which it won't at the moment, it's an emotionally fraught time with a boy who already finds it a struggle to behave) and he'll lose everything.

I wouldn't take away everything next time it's too dramatic, I'd have one consequence for all rude language/hitting/bad behaviour, and let him know that in advance.

Otherwise, he has no incentive to be better behaved, because unless he's perfect he's going to get nothing.

I think I'd be concentrating on some love bombing rather than punishing anyway, you need to connect back with him. Also- listen to what he's saying when he's cross and angry.

How to Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen so Kids will Talk transformed how I parented at around aged 7. I realised I spent a lot of time telling my children that black was white- so they weren't really tired, hungry, bored and not listening to them at all.

OP why did you give a 9 year old an iPhone?!!

It doesn't have a sim card. And I disabled Safari.
He can't google anything or search anything or watch YouTube or anything like that.

He just uses to play (age appropriate) games on apps which are vetted by me.

This is not the cause of our issues.

Now he knows that basically however good he is, it won't last (which it won't at the moment, it's an emotionally fraught time with a boy who already finds it a struggle to behave) and he'll lose everything.

That's not totally correct. He didn't lose everything because he kicked off or didn't last 7 days.
It was because he called us all cunts repeatedly.

We don't start from scratch if he misbehaves. It doesn't have to be 7 days in a row, he understood that.
And it has worked in the past quite well. This is the first time we have used this method, although it has been about 7 months since we last used it.

However this is the first time he's every gone as low as to call us cunts. Which is why I'm posting, because it's a new parenting low for me.

This ISNT the first time we have used this method.

@TheKidsGoneFeral

He was great for 4 days.

That's it. We implemented the "behave yourself for 7 days" because it's been really difficult with him recently.

When you say "behave yourself for 7 days" do you mean it literally? Because any child who's at home for 7 consecutive days, especially given the fact that they've had a very strange year with little social contact, will not have a week with 0 incidents.

My son went through a phase of swearing, he was around the same age, I ignored, ignored, ignored and it stopped. He realised it wasn’t having the desired effect of winding me up so he stopped. Now he’s 16 we get the odd fucks sake out of him which I still ignore. I’m sure his language is colourful when he’s with his friends though.

Asking for 7 days good behaviour from any child is asking too much.

At 9, he should be learning the art of compromise within boundaries. I'm inclined to agree that 7 days is too long. Shorter chunks of achievable goals would be better.
So, a day of good behaviour earns 15 minutes on 8pm bedtime.

I'm also wondering if he has a bit of middle child syndrome. Sees his older brother getting more freedom and the baby getting more attention. Does he get any one on one time with you proper?

And an iPhone for a 9 yo? That's a big deal. What are the rules around using it?

7 days of perfect behaviour is totally unachievable - work on one day at a time.
Quick punishments to the swearing at the time will work better. Immediate consequence to the crime. Removal of TV, sent to a boring room to reflect, take away phone

Sounds like my DD. If you take everything away for too long then he has no real reason to behave. If it's all gone what can you use as a next punishment? Maybe try a day by day thing. If hes good for one day he gets a reward. Then if hes bad the next day he dosent get anything that day?

If that makes sense.

Please don't blame another child for your child's behaviour because they have a social worker. You need to open your mind a bit there.
You have an older child who does know the word so I would suggest that is where it came from.
Your 9 year old has managed 5 days of good behaviour then has one blow out and you take away new things he had only the day before. And you've taken away the bike and the phone for one incident which seems harsh.
Consider this: is it possibly your 9 year old is struggling and wants a later bedtime to spend more time with you because he has a 1 year old sibling and has been locked inside due to an odd, unheard of virus for the past few months. 1 year old need a lot of attention. Your 9 year olds behaviour screams attention need to me. But all that's happening is tgere are unrealistic goals set and extrema punishments.
Love not war, understand why he's behaving this way. Talk to him.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a 9 year old to behave for a week (obviously with ADHD considered, it's harder). I would expect a a little back chat maybe, but calling your parents cunts?

I don't think you've been harsh OP and I don't know when it became ok for 9 year olds to constantly misbehave and have excuses made for them. I think the responses you've had are a bit harsh too. Losing the phone and the bike for a week is reasonable, losing privileges worked for my daughter who's the same age.

I obviously have no idea what your daily routine is but you might have to do a little more to keep him entertained. Not literally playing with him 24/7 but give him more opportunities to entertain himself. I think a lot of the poor behaviour of children at the moment is boredom and lack of a normal routine. My daughter's behaviour is definitely not as good as normal but there still does have to be consequences.

When you say "behave yourself for 7 days" do you mean it literally?

I'm not completely sure what you mean.

But to explain how I would do it, for example one of the rules would be to do as he was told. If I told
him to stop splashing his brother in the face, he wouldn't stop. Even on the fourth or fifth, which was why that rule was implemented.
So if he were to splash his brother in the face, I'd tell him to stop. He would inevitably do it again, I would remind him of the rules, his goal and he would stop.

So he's been naughty, but he was reminded of the rules and he stopped. Where as before those rules he would just carry on until I physically lifted him out the way, and his brother would be shouting.

If he hadn't stopped when I gave him that chance, then no, he wouldn't have got a tick for that day.

Oh I do get it- the word is like a terrible trigger and very upsetting. I felt like that when my eldest told me to 'f off'. What I would say is though, that that language is just part of the extreme emotional distress and anger. My dd has probably told me to f off two or three times in 10 years. It's hardly a daily occurrence.

The point still stands- your son got out of control on Day 5 and lost everything (iphone, bike, parental approval).

The fact he shouted the C word is just a measure of his losing control.

I really do think having measurable small goals which are daily and which give him the chance to be a great kid every day are the way to go.