My 9 year old called us all the C word. Repeatedly.

[TheKidsGoneFeral]

First up, addressing where the hell he learned that word from, because we never say it. My teenager didn't know that word until he was in secondary school. My 9yo is best friends and been playing with a child who has a difficult home life, has a SW, and has a bit of a sweaty family. I might be wrong but this might be where it came from. We really love his friend, so I need to have a think how to move forward with this because a few things have happened now. But setting that aside for a minute.

I have a 1 year old, his naps are changing, this means very occasionally (very very occasionally!) I will misjudge his day time nap and he won't go to bed until 9pmish (usually 7).

9yo DS goes to bed 8ish, he wants a later bedtime and I agreed but I want 7 days of good behaviour first. No answering back, no being rude, no kicking off at bed time.

He's been great, apart from last night (day 5 of 7). Toddler ds was downstairs and 9yo was going absolutely crazy, he hates his life, why aren't we normal, he gets treated like a 3yo, we're all cunts, he hates us.

Nice.

The day before we had just bought him a bike that cost us £100 (second hand but still!) and he got passed down my iPhone as well.

In response to the disgusting behaviour, the bike, phone, and freedom have gone.
I want them gone for a week.

Am I taking it too far?

I'm going to anticipate some questions
"Why not just let him stay up with the toddler?"

Two reasons, if he doesn't get enough sleep, the next day he becomes a hyperactive nightmare that's very difficult to deal with. This makes the following nighttime even worse. School are suggesting new has ADHD, I'm not convinced but we are following that route in case he does.

Secondly, he was supposed to do 7 days of good behaviour to earn a later bedtime. This was part of it. Not kicking off. I can't just give him a later bedtime, his behaviour has been a bit rubbish so he needed to earn it.

Thirdly, he wakes up 5-6am, whether he goes to bed at 8 or 9, and we notice that a short amount of sleep effects his behaviour (I realise 8 seems very early to some, but he reads his books for a bit).

Any advice?

It's not me it's a child. That's all I've got from the child is " its relaxing" never a motor tic and a vocal tic at same time. If it's a tic. But has consisted of throat clearing but has had problems with allergies so can't say 100 percent it's wasn't flem which is what I was told. Not sure I believe that though. Eye rolling, finger movements but never more than one tends to be a pattern to the movements. Also ruled out OCD so not that. Can go months with nothing but when stressed about something big or a big change reverts to it as its " relaxing". Will also finish pattern before responds to me almost focused on it. It's hard though as on Google some kids it says just have tics that come and go so am confused. When whatever the worry is they tend to just go to. Also child hasn't repeated them so when it's gone it's something new with the new big worry. Obviously hence months going by before something worries child. Thanks for your help.

I figured it was a child but wasn't sure if it was a he or her.

For what it's worth, tics are very very common in children, Tourette's isn't.
In fact, whilst we have had a couple of consultants say it's Tourette's, we have had one that said it's just tics. So who knows! They aren't all singing from the same hymn sheet.

My 9 year old has allergies as well.

And funny how you mention the throat clearing tic, that's the only one that both my kids have had. It's very common that one!

I have a 9 year old who is also really pushing boundaries. He's rude and answers back, also complicated by possible ADHD/HFASD.
We've set up a list of chores he can do to help and earn some brownie points and a list of 4 things (shower/apply deodorant, read for 30 minutes, summer school work and something else easily achievable) he must do everyday. He gets a small amount of pocket money added if he behaves nicely and helps with some chores but has pocket money deducted if he's rude/answers back rudely etc.
You are not alone!!

8yo here goes to bed at 7:30. Lights off 8:15. Like yours there are some ADHD type traits. We are firm and consistent but have found bedtimes can be negotiated on a day by day basis. Good behaviour can lead to later bedtime at weekends and holidays on that day. Poor decision making, poor emotional regulation or exceptionally slow processing (where he is unable to process being told to do/stop something) indicate that he's tired and an early night is needed. Snuggling into bed with him also buys more time in a quiet space where we can talk through anything which us making him anxious and contributing to trickier behaviour.

Doesn't always work though - needs me to be on my A-game which is exhausting!

The child is a boy. Is it more common in boys? Thank you so much for all the information. And sorry for going of topic on your thread.

Thank you to those who are in the same boat, making me feel like I'm not alone!

The question about tics - yes it's more common in boys.

@TheKidsGoneFeral - I've had an adhd appt with CAMHS today - a video appointment. The subject of bedtime came up as ds1 has been going to bed a little later and waking at silly o clock this last week as he's been hungry. His recommendation was absolutely no later than 9 o clock (my son is 10) and definitely not on a regular basis. As well we are now trialling supper for ds1 in particular to help him sleep longer in the morning. We generally do practice good sleep hygiene for the kids with no tvs/gaming/phones before bed or in bedrooms. he also suggested we revisit mindfulness practice as a family.

But yes, this was a departure from previous advice which was always 'as long as they get their number of hours'. It seems this has been a change in the last 2-3 years.

Sweaty made me laugh lol... sounds like he could possibly have ADHD? Maybe speak to a Dr about his behaviour x

My son is the same age and has ADHD. He’s a truly lovely kid but struggles with his impulses and also expectations- around things out of his control and also on himself. Through a system of trial and error we (me and his stepdad) have found that if we were to tell him “behave yourself for 7 days and then X will happen” that this is too general and he might even give up before he starts. We’ve found starting small and building up has helped massively.

Also can I say that blaming your child’s use of foul language on a friend of his who “has a social worker” is offensive and actually pointless. Children are not responsible for other children’s bad behaviour.

What’s done is done. I can understand his anger if his 1 year old brother is up until 8.30 so perhaps that’s the place to start. Perhaps allow him to stay up, but tell him that he is stay in bed until seven at the earliest.
Regarding the bike and phone, perhaps let him have one after say 4 days of good behaviour and then the other after a further 3 days. If his behaviour continues to improve increase bed time to 9pm.

A 9 year old should be having 10/11 hours per night, so working back from his early usual wake time shows you’re not unreasonable in your timing. If anything, he’s still not getting enough. Sleep is a crucial thing for kids with regards mood and behaviour as well as other health things.

I would deal with getting the toddler to bed earlier though; ideally I’d have them out the way and settled so the 9 year old can have half an hour or so of quality toddler-free time.

And for what it’s worth I don’t think your sanctions were too harsh

If a 9 year old is struggling, a week of good behaviour can be too much. 4 days sounds reasonable. Some children can manage a week, some can't especially if there are possibly other issues.

It may be worth finding out if anything is underlying the explosion, as well as imposing the sanctions. Whatever you bought him recently (and he's a lucky boy to get that much! :) ) then if things are winding him up, it won't matter how much he gets; the emotions will get too much for him. Space to talk, and then the clear boundaries and consequences you've imposed, will allow him to let off steam and to know that he is contained

I think this outburst could also be related to sibling rivalry. I wouldn't underestimate the effect of a new baby on a then eight year old. At all.

The anger seems to have come from the bedtime comparison to his one year old sibling and I think you mentioned earlier that he wouldn't stop splashing his baby brother despite repeated instructions to do so. I bet there are all sorts of emotions swirling around in his head about this huge and life-changing event for him.

As I always seem to do(!) I can't recommend enough the book 'How To Talk So Children Will Listen And Listen So Children Will Talk' by Faber and Mazlish. They also do a 'Siblings Without Rivalry' book that could be very helpful.

I think the most helpful advice I can give - apart from reading those books - is to approach this issue as learning how to change/ tweak YOUR behaviour, how you parent and how you react in the moment which will then bring about the changes you want to see in your son.

I meant to add the tag @thekidsgoneferal to my post.