My 9 year old called us all the C word. Repeatedly.

[TheKidsGoneFeral]

First up, addressing where the hell he learned that word from, because we never say it. My teenager didn't know that word until he was in secondary school. My 9yo is best friends and been playing with a child who has a difficult home life, has a SW, and has a bit of a sweaty family. I might be wrong but this might be where it came from. We really love his friend, so I need to have a think how to move forward with this because a few things have happened now. But setting that aside for a minute.

I have a 1 year old, his naps are changing, this means very occasionally (very very occasionally!) I will misjudge his day time nap and he won't go to bed until 9pmish (usually 7).

9yo DS goes to bed 8ish, he wants a later bedtime and I agreed but I want 7 days of good behaviour first. No answering back, no being rude, no kicking off at bed time.

He's been great, apart from last night (day 5 of 7). Toddler ds was downstairs and 9yo was going absolutely crazy, he hates his life, why aren't we normal, he gets treated like a 3yo, we're all cunts, he hates us.

Nice.

The day before we had just bought him a bike that cost us £100 (second hand but still!) and he got passed down my iPhone as well.

In response to the disgusting behaviour, the bike, phone, and freedom have gone.
I want them gone for a week.

Am I taking it too far?

I'm going to anticipate some questions
"Why not just let him stay up with the toddler?"

Two reasons, if he doesn't get enough sleep, the next day he becomes a hyperactive nightmare that's very difficult to deal with. This makes the following nighttime even worse. School are suggesting new has ADHD, I'm not convinced but we are following that route in case he does.

Secondly, he was supposed to do 7 days of good behaviour to earn a later bedtime. This was part of it. Not kicking off. I can't just give him a later bedtime, his behaviour has been a bit rubbish so he needed to earn it.

Thirdly, he wakes up 5-6am, whether he goes to bed at 8 or 9, and we notice that a short amount of sleep effects his behaviour (I realise 8 seems very early to some, but he reads his books for a bit).

Any advice?

7 days of good behaviour for a 9 year old is an unobtainable goal

Seriously? This has to be a joke. If a child cannot behave for 7 lousy days straight, something is seriously, seriously wrong somewhere. I'd say 2 weeks straight would be appropriate.

And he is only 9 years old, so going to bed at 7:30pm/8pm is the appropriate time. Any later than that is not recommended for a 9 year old child.

OP I would also ban him from playing with the other child, (at least until your son starts behaving and acknowledging that that behaviour is not appropriate in your house) as the other child is a bad influence on your son and clearly is not helping him.

Any later than that is not recommended for a 9 year old child.

Really? Who recommends that?

Pediatricians, GPs, Child specialists. It's common knowledge.

The recommendations for sleep is usually a period of hours. As long as you are meeting recommended hours, bedtime can be flexible around that. Some children fare better sleeping early, others later.

I've attached a useful picture.

However, if you're dealing with an ADHD child, this can all go out the window anyway.

Pediatricians, GPs, Child specialists. It's common knowledge.

I'm really not sure about that.

I believe it's about the length of their sleep rather than a set bedtime of 7.30 at the age of 9.

I'm not sure a peaditrician worth their salt would say a set bedtime for all 9 years olds...
That's really not how life works.

The thing is though op, a 9 pm bed time is a perfectly reasonable request for 9 year old, even if it makes things a bit tricky for you. So making him earn it with 7 days good behaviour, especially at the moment, is unreasonable, and while he might not be able to articulate that, it made him angry when he couldn't achieve it. It would have been better to trial a later bedtime, with an understanding that it was a privilege that he could lose.

Yes I think you're right.

I think that's what I need to do.

Honestly it's going against what I feel because in my head he's behaving like a little bugger and I'm going reward that with "hey have more freedom and a later bedtime" but I guess it's the bigger picture.

He often has dark circles under his eyes as well so the later bedtime worries me there, too.

@Deadringer He is only nine years old! A 9pm bedtime at that age is simply unreasonable. 9pm bedtime is recommended for high schoolers. I'm stunned that people think 9 pm is even remotely reasonable for a child that age.

If he has dark circles under his eyes then he needs to be going to bed earlier, not later. OP please don't listen to the permissive stuff others are posting. Children need routine and discipline. Not for you to cave in so easily. That is what causes misbehaviour, they know they can get away with it. The posts on this thread really shows how we have become such a permissive society that children run the household now.

I have raised 4 dc to adulthood and i have an 11 year old and for many 9 year olds a 9 pm bed time is perfectly fine. Every child is different and we have to raise the child we have, not the ones we read about in books or the ones the 'experts' tell us about. Obviously the many people on here who find it reasonable Timekeeper1 have discovered that through experience.

Hello OP,

Sounds like you’ve got lots going on here.

My son has ADHD and is now 17 so we’ve been through lots of difficult behaviours. Thankfully we are now out the other side.

I don’t know how much you know about ADHD but generally it makes children very impulsive and unfocused. That will make 7 days of good behaviour hard for your son. I’d be rewarding him verbally every time he does something nice or good. Lots of positive praise when he manages to do what he is asked or follows family rules even when not asked to.

It’s hard because you’ve got other children but I’d advice trying to find 30 minutes a day where you can do something with him..just you and him. This is really positive attention for children and works especially well with kids who find stuff more challenging.

It is worth googling The Incredible Years and seeing if anywhere local is offering classes . I did a parenting course a few years ago and it was honestly the best thing I ever did. Firstly it showed me I was getting it mostly right. Secondly it gave me some techniques I could use for difficult behaviour. Have a look locally and see what you can find available to help you.

Also have a look at the ADHD Foundation.

I know your son isn’t yet diagnosed with ADHD but some of the techniques which help children with ADHD will likely help your son too.

As for the C word....yep...been there and done that. I’ve also been called bitch and other stuff. At 17 he no longer does any of this and is a calm and affectionate young man. Each time he did mess up we reiterated that the words were not nice and put in a sanction. Usually no access to the computer until the next day.

It’s also worth posting on the SEN discussion board...I know he doesn’t have intellectual difficulties but he may struggle in other ways and the posters on the board will understand and may have more ideas.

Hang in there...you’re doing a good job and it’s hard work.

@TheKidsGoneFeral

Unfortunately you're wrong regarding bedtime, is isn't the amount of hours.

The sleep that happens prior to midnight is the deepest sleep, anything after midnight isn't as deep and therefore it's important for young children to sleep before midnight as much as possible, you can't simply ' catch up' by staying in bed later.

Additionally, when he goes to high school the days are likely to start slightly earlier so it's better to get them into an earlier routine sooner.

Removing things such as phones etc really doesn't solve the issue, it simply delays it happening again.

You need to figure out why your child is behaving badly because clearly it happens often, work out any triggers, explain why it's not a good choice. You don't simply punish straight away as no learning happens

@TheKidsGoneFeral

Unfortunately you're wrong regarding bedtime, is isn't the amount of hours.

The sleep that happens prior to midnight is the deepest sleep, anything after midnight isn't as deep and therefore it's important for young children to sleep before midnight as much as possible, you can't simply ' catch up' by staying in bed later.

Additionally, when he goes to high school the days are likely to start slightly earlier so it's better to get them into an earlier routine sooner.

Removing things such as phones etc really doesn't solve the issue, it simply delays it happening again.

You need to figure out why your child is behaving badly because clearly it happens often, work out any triggers, explain why it's not a good choice. You don't simply punish straight away as no learning happens

That's a dreadful post, AnOrdinaryMum What the hell?

@TheKidsGoneFeral I think some people have been a bit harsh to you but that is the nature of AIBU.

It's probably a case that you set a goal that might not be achievable, perhaps do it as a daily thing, if he is good that day he earns a later bedtime that day.
I totally get what you mean about getting enough sleep, my dd is the same. She can not regulate her own behaviour if she is tired and we all end up having a terrible day as a result.

There is a really great parenting course called the incredible years. I know loads of people who have found it really useful with challenging behaviour.
WRT the swearing. I have also been through this with my daughter, a 5 year old at the park kindly called her the C word because she said he had to wait his turn for the swing! It's actually quite upsetting as a parent when your child comes out with something so shocking......my son wasn't aware of that word until senior school either. When my daughter decided to use that word I always say I am not going to discuss the matter with her any further until she can use suitable language, then I leave the room. Don't let him see how much it upsets you because that is why they do it- to get a reaction. Stay calm and they get bored of it. It also give you the chance to walk away so you can deal with it when you are calm. The lady at my course always used to say "strike when the irons cold" ie don't try and deal with things when you child is caught up in the moment.

I think since you have issued a punishment you need to stick to what you have said.

This is Chat. Can you imagine if I posted in AIBU! I'd be crying in a corner 😂

So I've just looked up the Incredible Years and it seems to be aimed at children age 3-8. Is that correct?
My ds is 9

@TheKidsGoneFeral my DC are older so we did parents plus adolescent programme, i think they follow similar patterns. It really helped us just stop and re-evaluate what we were doing and why my DD was behaving the way she was. My DP has such a short fuse and it has really helped him to not get triggered by EVERYTHING....in a way it probably saved out relationship by not getting fired up every time DD started playing up it stopped the situation from escalating. Essentially we took back control. Don't get me wrong- she is still really hard work but we know how to deal with her better now.
it also made me feel like we weren't alone and that we were on the whole doing the right things.

lol I thought it was AIBU thank god you didn't post it in there then!

Hi op I was wondering in regards to your son having tourettes how did you know? What does he do? Does he do it every single day or could he have months with no tic but then start having tics during times of stress or big changes? Thanks for any info would help me. And yes it is linked to ADHD but I think they are called tics rather than tourettes if associated with ADHD.

It's probably a case that you set a goal that might not be achievable, perhaps do it as a daily thing, if he is good that day he earns a later bedtime that day.

Tbh I’d do the opposite- I’d completely depart bedtime from behaviour. His bed time is his bedtime because he needs to sleep - it might be later occasionally because of an event, party or outing but bedtime is bedtime 80-90% of the time. And if he cope with a later bedtime you can shift it a bit but part of a stable routine is a regular predictable bedtime.

@Fluffykitten23

Hi op I was wondering in regards to your son having tourettes how did you know? What does he do? Does he do it every single day or could he have months with no tic but then start having tics during times of stress or big changes? Thanks for any info would help me. And yes it is linked to ADHD but I think they are called tics rather than tourettes if associated with ADHD.

This is my first go at quoting!!

So it's not exactly straight forward. But I have a teenager who had really long drawn out violent and painful and noisy tics, it started when he was 7 and still has them in his teens. The paediatrician said for it to be Tourette's syndrome it has to be at least one motor tic at least one vocal tic and it lasts more than a year.
By that time it had been 4 years and he had two of each (at that appointment, it changes).

Then my 9 year old start ticking when he was 4. They were very faint and quiet and honestly I wouldn't have noticed them for another couple of years had I not spotted tics from 10 paces.
Because he's male and has a brother with Tourette's he had a 50% chance of getting it too (great! 🙄).
I know at this point, people ask whether he was copying my eldest son.
But the thing is with tics, they are different for everyone. And my boys have had many many tics and they have only had one that's the same which is the throat clearing tic and it hasn't yet happened at the same time. So he's never copied or had the same tic as my eldest. In fact they are actually very different.

I never bothered to get him diagnosed with Tourette's because quite simply, there's absolutely no point.
It helped a grand total of zero, getting my eldest diagnosed. So it was a massive waste of time and resources labelling my 9 year old.
However, he does tick all the boxes (pun intended 😆) for Tourette's just like my eldest.

Do they go months without tics?
I've heard lots of people do - but my kids have never been without a tic or tics since the day they started.
They have months where they are quieter, less noticeable tics and months where they are multiple, awful, painful tics but they have never actually been sans tics.

Op, nothing works better in this house (doesn't always work though!) Than when you sit down to eg play xbox, or ask will they come out and play catch and just start chatting but leaving out the problems. They nearly always come out.

Have you tried allowing him to constructively release his anger? Hit things like a pillow, mat and bat, punch panda etc, allowing him to scream, kick etc or giving him say 3 mins to say as many sweat words as he likes in that time and giving him that time every day in return for good behaviour?
I’m not sure why we try to suppress children’s anger and emotions, they’re actually very good for them to release! Much better that than a suppressed = depressed child

Thank you op very helpful. So without having a vocal tick and a motor tick at the same time someone can't be diagnosed with tourettes is that right? Do your boys find doing the tics relaxing as in they do them to relax or are they a source of stress for your boys? Sorry for all the questions op.

That's fine, ask away I don't mind.

When you say relax, do you mean relax or relief? It is a relief when they tic especially if they have to suppress them for some reason.

But definitely not relaxing, if anything they can make their muscles tense, pulled and painful.

What tics are you experiencing?