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ADs, Corvids and the sequacious masses

999 replies

Mascotte · 13/07/2020 22:34

New thread

OP posts:
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26
ILoveTotoro · 15/07/2020 00:01

@justasking111

I read somewhere that Morpeth had suffered death wise, as did the NE generally. Northumberland trust had 202 deaths I only noticed because relatives lived there once upon a time. That might be why they are so jittery. Here in my trust 373 deaths but too many were care home staff and the welsh are a bit fatalistic, so shop staff friendly and welcoming. Just a thought.
Ahh really maybe that explains it a bit then. I'm from Leicestershire and have noticed shops are way more dementory and less relaxed here than at home

Still no need to be dicks to a child though Sad

HeIenaDove · 15/07/2020 00:02

Yep Its deffo people not wearing masks that is the problem.

www.opendemocracy.net/en/ournhs/stay-home-no-money-2-weeks-hospital-treatment-nhs-patients-told/

OURNHS: INVESTIGATION
Stay at home with no money for 2 weeks before hospital treatment, NHS patients told
openDemocracy has uncovered a major new flaw in sick pay rules. Medics and experts slam the government for not supporting patients who seek to do the right thing.

caroline m.jpg
Caroline Molloy
14 July 2020
NHS hospital ward
Peter Byrne/PA Wire/PA Images

NHS hospitals are gradually reopening for planned operations and tests, from cataract treatment to heart operations. But many will remain sick, the treatment they need still out of reach.

Under rules laid down by NHS England, all patients must strictly self-isolate, and not attend work, for fourteen days before attending hospital. And openDemocracy has uncovered a major flaw in the plan: people in this situation could be left without a penny of income for the fortnight before they attend hospital.

openDemocracy asked the Department of Work and Pensions if people who were self-isolating under NHS instruction before attending hospital were legally entitled to Statutory Sick Pay (SSP). “The answer is currently no,” the department replied.

Some hospitals are also telling patients that all members of their household should also strictly self-isolate and stay home from work, or consider moving out for the two weeks before the patient’s hospital appointment.

Jon Ashworth, shadow health secretary, told openDemocracy, “This is deeply concerning and a huge hindrance to people who need treatment. Lack of financial support and security for people who need to isolate will exacerbate health inequalities. We’ll be raising this issue urgently with ministers.”

Martin McKee, member of Independent Sage and Professor of European Public Health, told openDemocracy that “those who must self-isolate for any reason must be given adequate support. Otherwise, we will simply increase the disadvantage of the most vulnerable and give some people little alternative but to break the rules.”

The government has extended Statutory Sick Pay to cover some situations specific to COVID-19, such as when people are told to self-isolate under the ‘track and trace’ scheme. But for people due to attend hospital, and not able to work from home, the DWP told openDemocracy it would merely “encourage” employers to pay them.

People staying off work to recover after their operations should be eligible for Statutory Sick Pay during that period, although the current level of £95.85 per week has been widely criticised and there are at least 2 million workers who don’t meet other requirements to get SSP.

The new normal in the NHS?
Helgi Johannson, a member of the council of the Royal College of Anaesthetists, last week tweeted his concerns about the “probably discriminatory” impact of the self-isolation requirement, saying it meant “anyone whose job is in danger will not want to have surgery… Elective surgery cannot wait forever. Hernias become strangulated, gall bladder disease can cause pancreatitis and death”.

His comments prompted an outpouring on social media from doctors, nurses and patients. Many voiced concerns that the ‘new normal’ in the NHS would see poorer patients delaying medically important procedures because they or their families can’t afford to take time off work.

Another doctor, Emma Young, tweeted “There is no doubt in my mind the rules around social isolation pre-surgery disproportionately affect people from lower socioeconomic backgrounds widening our #HealthInequalities further.”

A colorectal consultant said “I am struggling to get patients who desperately need it to come for surgery because they say they are too worried about their employers to self-isolate for two weeks.”

Still another doctor said the policy had “been designed by someone who’s never lived on SSP”. In fact as openDemocracy has discovered, a patient in this situation is not even entitled to SSP.

And the lack of financial support for households as well as patients themselves means it’s not just working-age patients who are delaying operations. “My 79 year old mum is putting off her urgently needed hernia surgery (it's been trapped and released once) as she's worried about the impact on my dad and sister's jobs having to isolate for so long. And there is nowhere else she can go and she will need them to look after her post op”, one Twitter user commented.

Other doctors raised concerns about the impact on the NHS as it works to get back on its feet.

One said “Despite the enormous backlog of operations to get through, we are struggling to fill our (limited capacity) elective theatre lists”. Another added that a third of patients were refusing surgery specifically because they “can’t isolate”.

Help patients follow the rules
Doctors’ organisations support the self-isolation rules but say the government needs to do more to ensure patients can afford to follow them.

Helen Fidler of the British Medical Association told openDemocracy: "It is imperative that patients undergo two weeks’ of self-isolation ahead of surgery in the interests of their very safety,” as well as to protect staff. She pointed to research showing there is a higher risk of complications and death for people who are operated on while they have COVID-19, adding that testing alone was not adequate to protect the patient.

But she added that “we would be very concerned if patients are putting off life-saving operations over worries around self-isolation and loss of income. Some of these procedures may already have been postponed due to the pandemic, and delaying further could have serious health implications. For those who cannot work from home during the two-week period, the government should provide financial protection so that no patient is penalised for following these important rules.”

The lack of financial support was also slammed by unions. The head of the TUC, Frances O’Grady, told openDemocracy: “It’s not viable to ask people to self-isolate if they are pushed into hardship. The government needs to ensure that anyone who has to self-isolate has access to decent financial support, meaning access to sick pay."

A DWP spokesperson commented: “Throughout the current emergency we have put extensive support measures in place such as increasing welfare benefit spending by £6.5bn to support those who are unable to work and making sick pay more generous by starting it from day one. Employers can and do provide their own sick pay on top of Statutory Sick Pay, something that we encourage.”

Research has found that lower paid workers are far less likely to have employers who enhance their sick pay arrangements above the legal minimum. These are also the workers less likely to be able to work from home.

The government was warned that that patients and doctors were already raising concerns about the issue back in May. The British Orthopaedic Association wrote to NHS England pointing out that the government had not addressed the issue of “individuals who are self-isolating ahead of surgery regarding eligibility for Statutory Sick Pay (SSP) if they cannot work from home.” They said the issue was causing patients “uncertainty” and needed to be “urgently” addressed, “to ensure there is equitable access to treatment (rather than easier access for those in a stronger financial position).”

Are you a patient or relative affected by the situation in this story? Contact caroline.molloy[at]opendemocracy.net in confidence.

LizzyButton · 15/07/2020 00:04

A fucking jobsworth "guarding" the door of a charity shop full on shouted at my 11 year old as she went in for "going the wrong way".

I had that today. Walked in to a medium sized store with two double doors. Shopping basket sanitising guardian told me I had used the wrong doors.

Twice.

Then stood there with a 'what are you going to do about it?' glare over her mask.

I said 'OK', turned and walked out and went elsewhere while she called after me that I could actually come back in.

There seemed to be three broad approaches today:

  1. Look, we've put a sign up and invested in a square meter of perspex, come on in.
  1. Wait outside and we will call you in / process the queue.
  1. 'We're now going to run through a few points that are already on the notices we have put up. The entrance you are coming in is marked entrance and you are to come in this way and not through the exit which we have marked exit. Meanwhile follow the arrows...'. These have Forst Perspex where the tills used to be.
ILoveTotoro · 15/07/2020 00:05

@BogRollBOGOF

I'm sorry that it was rubbish and it tainted your day. That's one day dampened for you, but with crappy attitudes like that, they risk ruining their business. Dementors like that will always end up losing in the long run.
Definitely - we bought nothing in the end Sadit's their loss

Hopefully tomorrow will be better - will be staying away from shops that's for sure Blushlest I end up arrested

If anyone has any suggestions of stuff to do around the newbiggin by sea area do let me know!!

LizzyButton · 15/07/2020 00:05

... or Fort Perspex.

I'm cutting down on store visits, masks or not.

Dowser · 15/07/2020 00:06

@ILoveTotoro
Oh what a shame..that’s just awful.
Can you have a drive to South Shields beach tomorrow
We’ve been today and it was wonderful
Plenty to do and very relaxed
Eat at sambucas..£7 for three course meal..nice food, no booking required, no masks, no sd

justasking111 · 15/07/2020 00:07

It is the same in the private sector the Spire have stated that you self isolate for two weeks beforehand. They call it the green pathway and have this to say

"The Green pathway is for patients undergoing surgery –inpatients and day case – that have isolated with the rest of their household for 14 days before their procedure and tested negative for COVID-19."

So if OH operation ever happens we will be bloody locked down again.

ILoveTotoro · 15/07/2020 00:08

@LizzyButton

>A fucking jobsworth "guarding" the door of a charity shop full on shouted at my 11 year old as she went in for "going the wrong way".

I had that today. Walked in to a medium sized store with two double doors. Shopping basket sanitising guardian told me I had used the wrong doors.

Twice.

Then stood there with a 'what are you going to do about it?' glare over her mask.

I said 'OK', turned and walked out and went elsewhere while she called after me that I could actually come back in.

There seemed to be three broad approaches today:

  1. Look, we've put a sign up and invested in a square meter of perspex, come on in.
  1. Wait outside and we will call you in / process the queue.
  1. 'We're now going to run through a few points that are already on the notices we have put up. The entrance you are coming in is marked entrance and you are to come in this way and not through the exit which we have marked exit. Meanwhile follow the arrows...'. These have Forst Perspex where the tills used to be.
Yep these jobsworths will end up with no "jobs" to be "worth" about when no one buys anything anymore Sad

I don't blame you walking out that's exactly what we did

They act like they're doing you a massive favour letting you in dont they

justasking111 · 15/07/2020 00:08

DS going back to uni. has his date and time. He is taking us out for lunch at a Turtle Bay restaurant, caribbean cooking, I am looking forward to that.

Dowser · 15/07/2020 00:09

Just posting this from
Leahmbutler Page
Who appears to be organising a rally against masks on Sunday

ADs, Corvids and the sequacious masses
justasking111 · 15/07/2020 00:09

Look at the time I am away to bed. Take care all xx

ILoveTotoro · 15/07/2020 00:11

@Dowser

Just posting this from Leahmbutler Page Who appears to be organising a rally against masks on Sunday
Oh i would deffo be interested in this!!!!
PickAChew · 15/07/2020 00:11

@ILoveTotoro

Had a shit day. We're on holiday atm in Northumberland been having a lovely time til today

the dc were wanting to spend their holiday money so we went to Morpeth. A fucking jobsworth "guarding" the door of a charity shop full on shouted at my 11 year old as she went in for "going the wrong way". i just think it's unacceptable to speak to a kid like that. Also dd has anxiety which she's only developed since coronavirus. So I just said oh forget it dd I can't be bothered with this. And we just walked out. but then when I got outside and told dh I just saw red and thought actually no fuck this. and went back to tell the manager how out of order it was for dd to be shouted at. She then got shirty with me, defending the staff member, "it's just the RULESSS " and then I ended up losing my shit at her 😳.
And Some bloke stood earwigging said to me "if you don't like the rules JUST STAY AT HOME" (well red rag to an AD bull that comment) so I called him a fucking dick head and stormed out

And just about every shop we tried to go in was a similar shitty, shitty negative experience with skittish staff and customers

We just felt really unwelcome everywhere

I just feel like the atmosphere has already got worse in shops since the mask announcement. and I'm meant to be on holiday having a nice time meh 😑

DS1 and I used to scour all the charity shops and we did have a less than comfortable experience on one in Morpeth, last year.

We have one close to our house that we refer to the Royston Vaysey charity shop due to the interrogation we inevitably receive when we go in. Most notably "you haven't got any of that bric-a-brac, have you?"

ILoveTotoro · 15/07/2020 00:11

@justasking111

DS going back to uni. has his date and time. He is taking us out for lunch at a Turtle Bay restaurant, caribbean cooking, I am looking forward to that.
Oh that is great news! Also I'm jealous I love turtle bay

Enjoy xx

PickAChew · 15/07/2020 00:17

@justasking111

It is the same in the private sector the Spire have stated that you self isolate for two weeks beforehand. They call it the green pathway and have this to say

"The Green pathway is for patients undergoing surgery –inpatients and day case – that have isolated with the rest of their household for 14 days before their procedure and tested negative for COVID-19."

So if OH operation ever happens we will be bloody locked down again.

Surely ly testing negative us sufficient?

I do hope you're reeased from your purgatory, before long.

Making plans to see my parents, this weekend. Mum has a vascular problem with her eyes but hasn't been able to have the much hated but much needed eye injections. She's almost lost the sight in one eye and when she finally had an injection, this week, the scanner couldn't even find her retina, her eye was in such a state.

Ibake · 15/07/2020 00:33

That's awful @PickAChew the difference btwn different trusts throughout this has been awful.

My MIL has macular degeneration and she's been getting her (also much hated) injections all along.

Loads of measures put in place to keep her safe as she's 86 with only 1 kidney. Hospitals argument was that she could go blind without the injections so being treated was more important than the risk of covid.

So sorry that your experience hasn't been as good.

HeIenaDove · 15/07/2020 00:48

Best one yet "You dont see Batman moaning about wearing a mask"

Quoting Chandler from Friends "No freak show hes fictional.

HeIenaDove · 15/07/2020 01:11

Fine for being drunk and disorderly...............£40 to £80
Fine for not wearing/being unable to wear a mask £100

Can TOTALLY see how this very intelligent virus chooses not to be passed between the pissheads who fight outside our Wetherspoons on a Friday night.

Offences where a penalty notice can be issued
You can get a penalty notice for certain offences.

Offencepenalty notice
indecent behaviour (only for urination in the street)£40.00 (plus a £5.00 offender levy)
drunk in a public place£40.00 (plus a £5.00 offender levy)
disorderly behaviour£80.00 (plus a £5.00 offender levy)
behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace£80.00 (plus a £5.00 offender levy)
obstructing police£80.00 (plus a £5.00 offender levy)
criminal damage (up to a value of £200)£80.00 (plus a £5.00 offender levy)
theft (shoplifting up to a value of £100)£80.00 (plus a £5.00 offender levy)

wanderings · 15/07/2020 06:37

@PickaChew thanks for your reply. With the mask thread I reported last night, I referred to “the pandemic of mask threads cluttering up active conversations”.

SirSamuelVimesBlackboardMonito · 15/07/2020 07:01

Morning all.

Still pissed off about masks. I thought yesterday that I would feel better today, but I don't. I still feel pissed off and powerless and frustrated.

And I'm still doing all my shopping on line. I was going to go to a small independent show shop for dd's school shoes but I don't want to buy them next week in case she grows over the summer and they end up too small, and I refuse to take a 6 year old girl into a shop full of people in masks like it's the fucking apocalypse.

Tu are still doing free delivery to store and free returns so I'll suck up having to wear a mask for five minutes to collect, order a fucking tonne of stuff, try it all on at home and return the rejects.

Economic impact - the indy show shop loses all the money it would have had from me (£40 on school shoes, plus £30 on toddler shoes for dd2 that I would have bought at the same time) and Sainsbury's loses money by having to finance the returns of over half of the items I'll order.

Rishi will be delighted. Oh wait. Maybe not.

SirSamuelVimesBlackboardMonito · 15/07/2020 07:02

Shoe. Not show. Argh!

LivinLaVidaLoki · 15/07/2020 07:20

@torydeathdrug
I received it last night (I reeeeeally wanted to come here and spread good news but ended up working til late).

So I can now confirm that (drum roll please) after the sheer amount of pissing about over the last week and a half, they have upgraded us to a 5* resort hotel thingy (the non visit chill out pool days are going to be AMAZING), which is literally around the corner from my 1 cousin, 10 min from another and a short drive to two of my aunts and uncles and a short drive the other way to most of the rest of my family that live there.
The flight days have been moved so we now have a lunchtime flight on both journeys and we got a free room upgrade too. I feel so posh!
We have also bought it forward by just under a week.

I feel like I can be excited about it now. Don't even care about mask wearing at the airport and on the plane (which will only be flying at 35% capacity) because I get to see my family and relax after an impossibly relentless year so far. Im so happy!!!!

Someone posted a news story about Greece closing their borders yesterday after a spike in infection since tourism started (just under 100 cases). I posted that its poor control from the land border with the balkans, that's where the cases originated. Nothing to do with Tourism at all. They have now set up a more efficient land border control.

Some plank commented "you a virologist? How could you know that"
So I responded "I may not be a virologist but I am Greek and have a better understanding of what is happening there than you (or this rag)"

I feel like I've had such a boost!!!

Worldgonecrazy · 15/07/2020 07:31

@LivinLaVidaLoki

Great news. I am very jealous. Greece is so amazing.

I hope your family are okay and not being hit too hard by the lack of tourists.

SirSamuelVimesBlackboardMonito · 15/07/2020 07:39

@Loki amazing! I am so jealous! Enjoy your trip.

LivinLaVidaLoki · 15/07/2020 07:40

@Worldgonecrazy
I only really have one cousin who works in tourism, they have a restaurant (amazing food BTW). Its only been open 3 summers and so its still quite delicate business wise.
Its normally heaving. This year, they only opened last week.
Whilst they've not been able to open, they've still had to pay rent for the building, utilities insurances etc, but no money coming in. The greek govt gave assistance to businesses such as nail salons and barbers, hairdressers and general business, but not to tourism....
If they had not had any tourism this year, they would have lost everything. Literally their home, the business they worked so hard to build up....
I mean, my family would never let that happen to them realistically, we help each other out, but we are lucky, so many arent.
And from a country that is only just seeing respite from devastating austerity, things are going to be very hard for a lot of people going forward.
They