What have you sacrificed to send your children to independent school?

[cheeseismydownfall]

DH and I are considering this for secondary, having made some rushed decisions in difficult circumstances that has led us to being in catchment for a pretty underwhelming secondary school. Eldest is in Y7 and it isn't working out very well for him. Two younger children in Y5 and Y3 - obviously if we go the independent route it will need to be for all three of them.

We've run the numbers and for three children it is a pretty eye-watering number (all the independents locally are £15k+ a year). It is just about affordable but would mean a significant change in lifestyle and much later retirement (we were planning to start winding down in late 50s - it would mean working for another 10 years and would need to stop overpaying on our mortgage).

My biggest worry is that if our circumstances changed we would have very little cushion in terms of taking a drop in income. It is such a massive commitment.

I'd be interested to hear from others that have faced a similar decision. If you can comfortably afford the fees or have children at an amazing state school this probably isn't the thread for you!

'I would be interested to hear what jobs their child ended up doing after going to private school? The people I have come across that attended private schools are a few nurses. I’d be a bit miffed if my child went to private school to become a nurse at the end of paying for school fees'

How bloody rude , you wouldn't have been complaining if a degree educated nurse was looking after you on a ventilator recently would you ?

@ottermum3 Bit off topic, but did you ever feel inadequate at Oxbridge? I know I did, and I constantly dwelt on whether I was really "supposed" to be there. It felt like my parents had made choices all along that got me there, rather than it being my own achievement.

I'm a state school teacher and we moved my DS to an Independent for y3 last year. Worth every penny. He's well behaved, bright and interested and all the teachers time was spent targeting disruption and focusing on bringing the below average chn up to standard. Not a criticism of the teacher, this is what I am forced to do myself at work ! No amount of outside tutoring made up for his time he had wasted at school. This was at a good with outstanding features primary school in a "naice" area. I love how many people have views on how marvellous free state schools are yet other than parents evening never step foot in one 😂 Maths and English are taught fairly well but science, language and art are all lacking . You would be surprised at the number of teachers who feel the same . The language and behaviour at our nearest "outstanding" secondary is also appalling, having worked on supply there. We are hoping DS gets into grammar for Y7 otherwise we will keep him at his independent. Same for DD when her time comes. Your children only get 1 childhood / education I dont understand how people can think holidays and meals out and cars are more important . You get what you pay for. In your shoes with x3 DC I would look at moving them in Y9 or Y10.

@Tootletum well that's the interesting thing and something my DH comments on all the time (he was in state education before transferring into private for sixth form and overall is much more intelligent and accomplished than I am): he can't believe how much self confidence and authority me and my friends have both in how we view ourselves and in how we interact with the world.

This manifests itself in simple day to day interactions where I have no problem questioning or pushing back on doctor's or other people in positions of authority or at parties where I feel confident vocalizing opinions on things I probably realistically only know on a superficial level.

When we were deciding what education path to go for our children, for him this (unmerited) self confidence was what pushed him to agree with me to go private all the way through. For him it wasn't necessarily about the education, it was more about the "soft factors": what happens within a system that produces children that are utterly confident and convinced that they too deserve to be heard and respected.

This is a very long winded answer to your question but when I ended up at Oxford (at the time), I was utterly convinced I not only belonged and deserved to be there, I think I was full of the teenage hubris about my own "brilliance". I remember thinking at the time and during much of my 20s as I worked in my career, "well everyone I know gets X or does Y, so why shouldn't I be admitted to Oxbridge, or get that job offer because I'm no worse than they are"

I do think at Oxbridge a lot of the confidence came from possessing the right social capital and knowledge and less about school work. Knowing about film, music, politics, literature and being overall well traveled with the right funny anecdotes carried a long way in day to day life.

For reference my parents were an academic at a university and a solicitor. Both fairly successful in Their fields. I am grateful that they gave the resources and space for me to feel like I flourished and only now in middle age do I have a more honest perspective.

As for my kids, I do hope they end up being happy and fulfilled. I would be disingenuous to say that I don't care about their financial well being but I do. I think the way the education system is set up, it funnels potential high earners together and thus creates more chances of them meeting their life partners at uni or shortly thereafter. And so the cycle of it all begins again...

@Tootletum well that's the interesting thing and something my DH comments on all the time (he was in state education before transferring into private for sixth form and overall is much more intelligent and accomplished than I am): he can't believe how much self confidence and authority me and my friends have both in how we view ourselves and in how we interact with the world.

This manifests itself in simple day to day interactions where I have no problem questioning or pushing back on doctor's or other people in positions of authority or at parties where I feel confident vocalizing opinions on things I probably realistically only know on a superficial level.

When we were deciding what education path to go for our children, for him this (unmerited) self confidence was what pushed him to agree with me to go private all the way through. For him it wasn't necessarily about the education, it was more about the "soft factors": what happens within a system that produces children that are utterly confident and convinced that they too deserve to be heard and respected.

This is a very long winded answer to your question but when I ended up at Oxford (at the time), I was utterly convinced I not only belonged and deserved to be there, I think I was full of the teenage hubris about my own "brilliance". I remember thinking at the time and during much of my 20s as I worked in my career, "well everyone I know gets X or does Y, so why shouldn't I be admitted to Oxbridge, or get that job offer because I'm no worse than they are"

I do think at Oxbridge a lot of the confidence came from possessing the right social capital and knowledge and less about school work. Knowing about film, music, politics, literature and being overall well traveled with the right funny anecdotes carried a long way in day to day life.

For reference my parents were an academic at a university and a solicitor. Both fairly successful in Their fields. I am grateful that they gave the resources and space for me to feel like I flourished and only now in middle age do I have a more honest perspective.

As for my kids, I do hope they end up being happy and fulfilled. I would be disingenuous to say that I don't care about their financial well being but I do. I think the way the education system is set up, it funnels potential high earners together and thus creates more chances of them meeting their life partners at uni or shortly thereafter. And so the cycle of it all begins again...

Without paying the school fees would probably have a larger property and flashier car . For me investing in the best education for my child I could get equates to more choices for her future .

@ottermum3 This is something I definitely notice about colleagues who were privately educated, that their sense of confidence on average is much higher than those who were not. One colleague in particular often throws out statements like 'I'm so good at this' or challenges our boss on things in a way I would never do, simply because state schooling in general, as well as a working-class upbringing, does not instill that sense of confidence in children to challenge and voice opinions. However, this confidence often translates to a huge sense of entitlement as well and that's not something I'm hugely keen on fostering in my children. It's a difficult balance to strike.

@3rdNamechange

'I would be interested to hear what jobs their child ended up doing after going to private school? The people I have come across that attended private schools are a few nurses. I’d be a bit miffed if my child went to private school to become a nurse at the end of paying for school fees'

How bloody rude , you wouldn't have been complaining if a degree educated nurse was looking after you on a ventilator recently would you ?

I work on a COVID-19 ward myself looking after others actually. It was not a dig at anybody or down playing the job of a nurse. I you read my other comments on the full thread.

No I would not complain by the way. I will not change my opinion though my comment was based on the expectations of private schools.... this is not my own personal experience but others have told me when I’ve spoken to them about private schools.

If**

@FoilWrappedSandwich

I'm a state school teacher and we moved my DS to an Independent for y3 last year. Worth every penny. He's well behaved, bright and interested and all the teachers time was spent targeting disruption and focusing on bringing the below average chn up to standard. Not a criticism of the teacher, this is what I am forced to do myself at work ! No amount of outside tutoring made up for his time he had wasted at school. This was at a good with outstanding features primary school in a "naice" area. I love how many people have views on how marvellous free state schools are yet other than parents evening never step foot in one 😂 Maths and English are taught fairly well but science, language and art are all lacking . You would be surprised at the number of teachers who feel the same . The language and behaviour at our nearest "outstanding" secondary is also appalling, having worked on supply there. We are hoping DS gets into grammar for Y7 otherwise we will keep him at his independent. Same for DD when her time comes. Your children only get 1 childhood / education I dont understand how people can think holidays and meals out and cars are more important . You get what you pay for. In your shoes with x3 DC I would look at moving them in Y9 or Y10.

I think we are all aware that a state school doesn’t compare with a private school in most cases. but the harsh reality is a lot of us can not afford to send our children to a private school! So we have no choice but to hope for the best and look on the bright side.

Ottermum, I cannot really decide whether you are for real or if your post was satire

Either way, it was entertaining

@Pikachubaby 😂 sorry! I think I am having an early mid life crises and have become overly invested in therapy, and becoming way too emotional/introspective about myself and my life!

I promise you I'm an ok person just feeling a bit lost in my own life and purpose right now

@ottermum3 Yeah I guess I'm one of the people who went from state to private in 6th form, and therefore never fitted in anywhere. I was deemed posh at a state school, and at Oxford I socialised with both sets separately. I don't really know, similar to the OP, what's best for my kids, as I've never come to any conclusions about my parents' decisions.

My soul.

Cars, holidays. most of my social life, I’ll have to work an extra 3 years.

But ds is happy and thriving, his confidence has grown. He isn’t bored and angry any more. He gets involved and is starting to take pride in his work.

So far, for him, it has been worth the money.

My parents sacrificed loads to send us to independent schools. It was most definitely not worth it.

Mine too. It was in the 80s/90s but all the stuff they/we could've had and done if they hadn't spent all that money on second rate independent schools makes me want to cry.

If you can afford private without giving anything up, go for it. Otherwise, I'd say there are only a few instances where it's truly worth it. If you're in the forces and you need your DC settled at a school rather than moving around every couple of years, if there is literally no option to move to a catchment area for a good state school, if you have a DC with SEN who NEEDS the additional support provided by a certain school, if your DC is desperately unhappy for whatever reason and the only option is private - then go ahead. But in pretty much any other circumstances I wouldn't scrimp and save and delay retirement in order to afford private school - instead I'd move house to a catchment with better schools. Ask yourself OP - is this school exceptional? Is it better than a good state school? If the answer to those questions is 'No', then move. £15k per year for three DC for seven years is £315k. Can you afford to spunk that kind of money up the wall? Because there is literally no guarantee that it will be money well spent.

@ottermum3, @FoilWrappedSandwich, really interesting perspectives, thank you for taking the time to share.

I hear you about the soft skills / confidence. This matches with my own personal experience. I do know a few privately educated individuals who are unpleasantly untitled, but I know many more who are just confident and at ease with themselves. Anecdotally, I work in a small, entrepreneurial business. The two (wonderful) directors who founded the business were both privately educated. The rest of us workers are state educated. It does make me think. They are not in the least bit arrogant, but both start any new project with the assumption it will be successful.

A few people asked about what my expectations of what 'success' looks like in terms of academic performance and careers. I know it is a cliche, but my priority is for them to be happy. I would consider it as money well spent if if private education helped them find their passion (or at least a strong interest), together with the grounding and confidence to pursue it.

@ottermum - I wonder how long they have to be privately educated to acquire the 'soft skills' as you put it? Your DH presumably feels that two years wasn't enough. What about a Y9 transfer? Or do they need to be 'in the system' from Y7 or even earlier? I'm aware that there might be a risk that a late transfer might actually have an adverse effect on their confidence if it goes wrong.

@cheeseismydownfall I think you really nailed it and said it much more articulately than I have when you described your directors: they are open to taking risks and go in with the assumption that a project will be a success. I very much see that in myself and in my peer group. It's the, why shouldn't we try this and why shouldn't this be a success. It probably comes from positive reinforcement of trying things and them working out.

We thought a lot of about your question when we considered when to start private education. I do think it is very child and family dependent. The below POV is only what we have extrapolated from my own experience and my dc's experience. My family life and their family life was already fairly stable, I/they were never aware of any worries regarding money or any form of insecurity parents might have felt and there was very much a feeling permeating of unconditional love - if that's not there, I think that's another element that can add to what the outcome and confidence of a child would be and no amount of private education can overcompensate.

What the school did was find areas where a child excels in and help promote, highlight and boost those areas while at the same time provide support in a non confrontational or hostile way for areas where the child is struggling in. What ends up happening is that within the school atmosphere each child finds something that they are publicly praised over and has a niche where they feel good about themselves. And the areas where they are lagging are quietly dealt with by just good teaching and support.

The other thing I mentioned before which I do think helps is the transference of social capital that private schools can impart that may not be available within the home. Exposing students to different social situations, different music, plays, art etc - these things may never be tested on but they give a child and young adult confidence in a varied amount of settings that they've seen XYZ before and know what the correct behavior is, know how they can contribute their opinion.

A very long winded way to say that all these factors come together in a melting pot to create a whole person over time. We were like you and did not base our "investment" in their education solely on how financially lucrative their careers would be or what uni they ultimately would end up in.

Instead we believe by promoting this type of education we are cultivating the best version of our children that they can possibly become - a version where they are happy and confident in the world and with themselves.

As a by product, somehow for me and all my friends, we have also married partners that have the financial ability to support that viewpoint and similar lifestyle values.

Sorry, but I had to laugh at the brilliant typo 'unpleasantly untitled' - perhaps a description of how your stereotypical OE views the plebs...

@ottermum3

Instead we believe by promoting this type of education we are cultivating the best version of our children that they can possibly become - a version where they are happy and confident in the world and with themselves.

That's exactly it, this is what we would be hoping to gain. Thank you for this and for sharing more about your experiences.

Incidentally, I was state-educated at an averagely good state comp. I excelled academically and got a place at Oxbridge. So superficially I was a state 'success story', and I was proud that I had achieved what I did 'off my own back'.

BUT my confidence deserted me once I started at uni and I was hit with a massive case of impostor syndrome (looking back, I think a lot of this was to do with the uber-confidence of the other mainly privately educated students, although I didn't recognise that at the time) and ended up switching to a much less prestigious uni. I then managed to bag a place on a very competitive consultancy grad scheme, but again I bailed because I didn't really believe in my ability to to the job.

DH was privately educated until 11 and then went to an excellent grammar, so doesn't have quite the same perspective or experience.

@altopredominant good catch

I do think private school cultures have a lot to do with the families they attract and they evolve around that. M
Tge arrogance and or entitlement does come from the home.
The confidence comes from the school. Take the simple gesture of shaking hands with their teacher at the end of the day, it makes lots of people's toes curl, but it gives the child confidence to look an adult in the eye and greet them confidently. Public speaking with show and tell from a very early age. Assembly and plays regularly. Time in the day to devote to each subject.
The opportunity to try new things private schools have the resources and time to take children out and about or bring education opportunities in. Music art science and languages are taught from an early age by teachers confident in their delivery because they know that subject in depth. They can expand with the children's quest for knowledge giving the children confidence to question and explore.
Sport teaches personal excellence having a go doing your best and team work, state schools have 2 lessons a week prep schools roughly 5-7 hours a week including matches and PE with additional fixtures tournaments and galas on a pupil by pupil basis.
The children tend to be proud of their school, it's facilities and equipment.
Proud of the history and team spirit is built up in a shared pride in the schools achievements and a competitive house structure. The successful state schools also have a driven belief of pride.
What they can offer in terms of facilities for subjects the government doesn't fund well enough such as art and textiles can't be beat. Proper labs for science. Facilities for anything you might have a talent for. Opportunities to try things and encouragement to have a go find your strengths and weaknesses and work on both.
The teachers have time for the pupils because there are less of them.
Some of these things can transfer over to the state sector and some just can't

I have a very similar story OP, despite my very average state schooling I also got into a very competitive university and course and transferred out because of crippling self-doubt. To me, the other university students (the majority of whom were from private and grammar schools) seemed so poised and confident and I never felt I could hold my own. It's so sad that this kind of confidence can be bought for the right price.

I don't understand how people can think holidays and meals out and cars are more important

For most people it isn't about doing without the extras or nice to haves. It is about affording a roof over your head and food on the table.

I agree that maybe going to private school might have given DD more confidence, but I doubt that she would have done any better academically than she did at state school. She is not at all sporty, and she wouldn't have been able to do any after school activities because the school was too far away and she would have had to get the school bus straight after school.

Not there yet but possibly a 4th child and most definitely the option to be a single income family. We do plan to have at least a years fees, preferably a years fees for two children saved up for emergencies before they start (by continuing to put aside the money we spend now on childcare after they move to primary school, which will be local school.)