What have you sacrificed to send your children to independent school?

[cheeseismydownfall]

DH and I are considering this for secondary, having made some rushed decisions in difficult circumstances that has led us to being in catchment for a pretty underwhelming secondary school. Eldest is in Y7 and it isn't working out very well for him. Two younger children in Y5 and Y3 - obviously if we go the independent route it will need to be for all three of them.

We've run the numbers and for three children it is a pretty eye-watering number (all the independents locally are £15k+ a year). It is just about affordable but would mean a significant change in lifestyle and much later retirement (we were planning to start winding down in late 50s - it would mean working for another 10 years and would need to stop overpaying on our mortgage).

My biggest worry is that if our circumstances changed we would have very little cushion in terms of taking a drop in income. It is such a massive commitment.

I'd be interested to hear from others that have faced a similar decision. If you can comfortably afford the fees or have children at an amazing state school this probably isn't the thread for you!

@PerditaProvokesEnmity

(We had full bursaries from prep school through to 18 though, so the financial considerations were rather different.)

Bloody hell I’d say! How did you manage that!

It comes down to knowing it's possible, finding the right schools for your particular child, and applying. I and a few others have spent a good deal of time on MN over the years saying exactly this. If you're really interested I suggest you settle down on the education boards and spend a weekend reading some bursary and public school threads (ignoring the sniping from people with no knowledge whatsoever!).

I think I’ve missed the boat with that

My two are in a really good prep that had a waiting list and only do partial bursary but could bloody kick myself I didn’t enquire. My friends son is on a partial bursary but is incredibly intelligent and I just thought they had to be gifted in some way. However I will head over there now to see if I can still apply. Thanks

It needs to be sacrificing bigger cars, bigger holidays and bigger house. If it's that you are only just getting by and have no savings, it really is a big risk. Are there any grammars that any of yours could get into? I.e. a way you can mix up the schooling? Private school is brilliant but very expensive. If anything I'd stick it out as long as possible with a private tutor then move for GCSE. If all kids go for GCSE onwards, would that help?

The idea of people moving to the catchment area for a good state school - well I think that's only an option for a few people, probably more likely to be in an urban area.

We moved to our 'forever' home when the DC were 3 and 6. We hadn't really considered secondary education at that point. There's no way we would have wanted to move house just 5 years later for a better school. Either for the hassle or expense.

@PerditaProvokesEnmity

I think people have to be very careful when they spout out "a bright child will do well anywhere". It's not always the case.

I agree. I certainly don't think only independent schools can bring out potential - but it's patently clear that an unsupportive or underfunded school can damage children's prospects, no matter how bright they may be.

Yes I agree totally and it’s one of the reasons we left our first indie. They had amazing pastoral care, school ethics, spent hours outside in their woodlands but the academic side just didn’t cut the mustard. The GCSEs were pretty poor. It felt we were just paying for them to have a ‘nice time’

I moved three times in 4 years to get a bigger house and also to live in an area with above average schools (primary and secondary) that were not difficult to get into.

I'm just rereading all your posts op. I'm going to further push my idea of private school from year 9 or 10 onwards. A lot of people did this at my private school and they did very well. From what I've seen, waiting it out and going to private school later worked much better than putting children in then having to remove them. If each of the 3 children started in year 9 say, then that's 6 years of fees you're saving between them. I know this might not feel ideal, but could a good compromise.

Plus if you bought your house a while ago you probably got it at a reasonable price. Ours is worth over double what we paid 20 years ago and we’ve almost paid off the mortgage, plus we love it here.
To buy a similar house close enough to a really good school ( assuming you can find such a school and a house you like virtually on its doorstep) would probably cost more than Private school in our case .
I hope both DC achieve their potential but I won’t be measuring that by their earnings in later life.

@Evelefteden

Yes, that is coaching, that is exactly what I am referring to.

It doesn't make the children better educated, it makes them better at answering 11-plus questions.

That's fine if that's what parents want.

There are plenty of people at great universities who are not doing so well once the spoonfeeding ends.

But if you said to me this person got three AAAs at private school, this person got three AAAs at a good state school and this person got three AAAs at a struggling state school, I would see that as suggesting different levels of personal ability and motivation.

Evelefteden - just bear in mind that not everyone is lucky.

It depends on the wealth of the school. It depends on just how much they value what your child can bring. It depends on your financial situation.

Prep schools have very few bursaries - presumably because it's much harder to 'judge' a child at that age - so we were lucky. At senior school level it is, counterintuitively, much better to apply to the grandest, wealthiest boarding schools rather than the naice little day school with a smart blazer at the end of the road. And a school with a really well established bursary system - clearly outlined on their website - that makes several awards every year is much better than somewhere that offers one, on occasion, to the headmaster's friends.

Scholarships require prize winning intelligence, or talent, some bursaries are dependent on achieving a scholarship but some are considered separately. It's obviously impossible to define how it works because every school will apply their own criteria.

@cherrysummerfruits, thank you for taking the time to read my comments. You are quite right that a move at Y9 could be an option. It would definitely save money (possibly a make or break amount) and would have the advantage that we would have longer to see if the current school is going to work out or not. I know that the school we are looking at does have a reasonable 13+ intake, although most of those students will come from prep schools, not state.

The disadvantage of course is the disruption for them socially. Difficult to know how that might play out until we get to that point I guess.

We don’t have foreign holidays, we drive decade-old cars, the house is in a slightly shabby state and we get our furniture from IKEA. We don’t eat out much, and are pretty frugal with clothes and toys. We have what we need though, and it’s a sacrifice I’m completely to make for the child whose needs would be best met by the independent school. I have another in grammar, but I’d pay fees for that school too, if I had to, as it’s the right school for him.

ten year old cars and furniture from IKEA? my word, the struggle is real.

I guess the point about moving house is that no matter the expense or inconvenience it may well be an awful lot cheaper than private school! So the hassle and expense is comparatively small compared to fees, surely?

My parents moved across the country when I was 12, in a significant part so that I could go to a good state school. They couldn't afford private school fees but they could put an extra £50k on the mortgage. They also recouped that once my brother and I were grown up, as the house was still worth more because the school was still good.

We drive a 28 year old car, have made only essential changes to our home in 20 years, shop at ASDA, never buy takeaways, rarely eat out, don't own any named brand clothing, and will work well beyond retirement age. We have only one child but our family income has always been under £50k. She was awarded a bursary and scholarship at an independent London school, and by the time she finished school she was holding four different scholarships. The school also had endowments that allowed her to undertake extra curricular courses in the summers. She now has two scholarships at university, and that, in addition to the fact that we have a low family income has made it possible to get her through to her final year without too much economic pain. There was never a fall back fund - we paid the fees as we earned. It can be done, but you have to be certain of your choice.

We moved ds in y6 and dd in y3.
It's been hard, and we have next to no spare income (tho we do have savings we try not to dip into). That has got slightly better.
However the school they go to has a range of family incomes and it isn't all ski trips at half term. The fees are low in comparison with other schools. And it's a small school so I worry about it going under.

[quote labyrinthloafer]@Evelefteden

Yes, that is coaching, that is exactly what I am referring to.

It doesn't make the children better educated, it makes them better at answering 11-plus questions.

That's fine if that's what parents want.

There are plenty of people at great universities who are not doing so well once the spoonfeeding ends.

But if you said to me this person got three AAAs at private school, this person got three AAAs at a good state school and this person got three AAAs at a struggling state school, I would see that as suggesting different levels of personal ability and motivation.[/quote]
Well your entitled to your opinion. It’s like having an opinion on wearing trainers only you’ve only ever worn flip flops. You’ve got an opinion on something you’ve probably never experienced.

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder though. If any student get AAA they’ve all done incredibly well. Don’t hate on other people who walk different paths than you.

@janinlondon

We drive a 28 year old car, have made only essential changes to our home in 20 years, shop at ASDA, never buy takeaways, rarely eat out, don't own any named brand clothing, and will work well beyond retirement age. We have only one child but our family income has always been under £50k. She was awarded a bursary and scholarship at an independent London school, and by the time she finished school she was holding four different scholarships. The school also had endowments that allowed her to undertake extra curricular courses in the summers. She now has two scholarships at university, and that, in addition to the fact that we have a low family income has made it possible to get her through to her final year without too much economic pain. There was never a fall back fund - we paid the fees as we earned. It can be done, but you have to be certain of your choice.

Bloody hell shes done amazing! Well done all of you.

I've skim-read so apologies if this has been brought up, but don't forget school fees increase every year, and increase more and more as your child gets older. What you pay for a year 7 won't be what you pay for a child in sixth form at the same time.

Fees tend to be set for certain groups - so years 1-4 pay one price, then in years 5-6 it increases slightly, years 7-9 it goes up again, then 10-11 again, and then sixth form it's even more money. It's worth thinking about if you're going to have all three children there at the same time.

The additional costs are massive too. How will they get to/from school? Will you and DH drive them or will you need to pay for them all to get the bus? School uniform plus sports kit x 3 won't be cheap either - you can't just pick things up from ASDA - they have to come from school outfitters. Then add on things like music lessons, school trips etc. and it doesn't come cheap.

I went to private school my entire childhood and I don't think the education was exceptional. Both schools were in great grounds and there's no denying they had amazing facilities (especially sports ones) but I don't think my experience was worth 16k+ a year at all. My parents could easily afford it (high earners + only child) but even so, the money would have been better spent elsewhere imo.

I'd never send my children down that route.

@vanillandhoney, yes, you are right - the fees at the school we are looking at do go up considerably as you progress through the school, and we've included that in our figures (along with an estimated 5 per cent increase per year).

It is a hard decision to make if you can just about afford it, but not easily. I've swung backwards and forwards just reading these replies. Ultimately I guess it is impossible to know if it will be worth it for an individual child.

Well, first we only had one child. More than that and we couldn't have sent them.

I'd also say that what suits one child may not suit another, so if oldest is better off at Private fine but the others could have different needs/abilities.

Also, and I say this knowing that current circumstances make it very difficult I do think of you chose private for a child you have to see it through. So, we planned ahead and banked all the tuition for Y7-13 before they started and it's completely ringfenced. Not everyone can do that, but I think you need at least 1 school years fees set aside as a buffer.

What is wrong with his school? How does it underwhelm you?
We put DS through private and now he's at a free school a la Toby Young style but not one of his. They've been amazing pastorally and are tracking him for grades at GCSE
The prep was amazing at first but then went through a rocky patch so we decided to move in year 7.
DD is at a prep and the lockdown provision has been underwhelming to say the least. We are thinking of a year 3 move back to the state sector.
It has to be the right fit for your child and there are some extraordinary public schools out there but not really for DS in terms of gender and how he would fit in.
I'm not saying the State school has magiced itself into the perfect spot for him but the staff are incredibly supportive of all the children and money can't always buy that.

[quote cheeseismydownfall]@vanillandhoney, yes, you are right - the fees at the school we are looking at do go up considerably as you progress through the school, and we've included that in our figures (along with an estimated 5 per cent increase per year).

It is a hard decision to make if you can just about afford it, but not easily. I've swung backwards and forwards just reading these replies. Ultimately I guess it is impossible to know if it will be worth it for an individual child.[/quote]
Ah good, just wanted to make sure you'd included it in your calculations as I think there's a fair jump in fees from year 7 to sixth form.

Personally I wouldn't put myself in a position where it could potentially be a struggle. You have to think about so much more than just the fees - extra-curricular activities, longer holidays to occupy them in (my parents had to split all their annual leave and it was still nowhere near enough), Saturday school (potentially) and the impact of that, the cost of music lessons, uniform, sports gear, school trips - none of it comes cheap.

I had 9 weeks off each summer, 2 weeks in October, 3 weeks at Christmas, a week at February, 3-4 weeks over Easter, and a week in June. I was also expected to be in school as normal on Bank Holidays which is another thing to think about when looking at annual leave allowances for you and DH. It's a lot of time to cover!

@didkdt, I think my main areas of concern are these:

1. poor extra curriculars. As in, they are pretty much totally absent. Apart from the sports teams and a drama group there is nothing on offer at all. I didn't realise this when we chose the school (I naively assumed all schools offered a range of basic after school clubs like art etc).

2. disruptive behaviour. DS regularly talks about low level fighting, doors being kicked in, disruptive behaviour in class. I've also (since we started) heard several first and second hand reports of bullying being handled badly, although fortunately that hasn't been a specific issue for DS.

3. pretty average progress scores, especially for girls. It just doesn't feel like a school that is ambitious for its students.

4. the provision in lockdown has been pretty disappointing. Disorganised with very little contact or feedback from his teachers.

When we sent DS (in 2004, aged 8) we had five years fees saved up, and owned 80% of an expensive house in London. If the worst had happened we could have sold the house, to free up enough capital to pay the fees until he was 18 and deal with dd from 11 too. The worst never happened.

There are cliques at every school - I never bothered with them at primary or independent.

Uniform and trips are such a tiny percentage of the overall fees that if you have to quibble over them, you can't afford the fees.

Massive commitment for three children. In your shoes look for a different secondary for ds1 (there's always movement) and save your money for 6th form.

Bullying happens at lots of schools and the private sector don't always manage it well. Sometimes fee income has more of an incentive than pupils outcome not always but sometimes.
Fighting and low level disruption is more of an issue I think and I would probably start looking around or engaging with the school on their plans to tackle it.
DS school has a tough but fair policy about disruption in class. What is the school approach?
How much choice do you feel you have in your area is it worth taking a punt to see if you can get a space at another school. There will be some movement of people after lockdown and something may come up.
Extra curricular activities what does your DS want to try?
Can you access it elsewhere?
I'm all for the right independent school but you have to find the right fit.
I agree with a PP that trips and uniform are an insignificant part of the cost and if you need to worry about that you probably can't afford the fees.
15k is not too expensive for a senior school certainly the top end of our prep is £16k and fees go up massively in the later years as well as annual fee increases.
What about entrance exams?

As to what we gave up, well it was holidays not totally but it changed where when and how often.
A bigger house and we are feeling that now
The cars we drive
We don't have regrets but it did affect our lifestyle