Terrible CVs

[PymChurchBeach]

Disclaimer: I know times are hard and shitty right now and a lot of people are desperate for work so probably chucking out CVs left right and centre at anything and everything.

BUT. I have worked in HR for nearly a decade now and it has always been the same. The general standard of CVs is bloody awful. I'm recruiting for a mid level role at the moment and I have seen the following:

• people using little hearts and stars instead of bullet points
• massive glamour model style photographs taking up the whole first page of a CV
• people's dates of birth and marital statuses written up at the top. Just no!!!
• wacky, colourful borders and fonts. Comic sans. Enough said.

Also - this last one is possibly controversial but when women have had a break to look after DC, there really is no need to list all the skills gained as a SAHM - e.g. "excellent time management skills etc". You can just say you had time out to raise children. That's all you need to say. I'm not going to think any the worse of you for it.

I am desperate to implement application forms rather than have CVs and cover letters but my CEO is old fashioned and will not have it.

My DS will be applying for his first job soon, he’s just finishing his HND. He has ASD, he may well need more support than the average candidate, both in an interview and in the role. If he doesn’t mention this at some point how’s he ever going to get past interview stage?

That should be covered in the application process because all employers ought to say on the job spec that candidates who would need reasonable adjustments made should say so.

They definitely do teach it in schools - just badly. I don't know why it's such a persistent myth that hobbies are crucial. Same with extra curriculars for university entrance - there is always a mob of people out there who truly believe that you must include your grade 5 violin and your volunteering with the elderly, and if you haven't done such things, you must quickly take time off from your studies to do them.

It varies hugely by country, though. IME American-style cvs are huge and contain absolutely everything.

When I have been recruiting, I am willing to overlook a huge amount of "errors" on a CV (unusual font choice, poor formatting, photos included, too much detail about hobbies, "wrong" order of information) so long as the CV shows the experience needed is there, although this will mark down the person against someone else with similar experience and may make me consider them more junior that I would have otherwise. As the role I recruited for included report writing I would expect to need to provide more training and so that would be taken into account for salary level.

The only thing that would stop me considering someone is very poor spelling and grammar - if I am expected to spend my time interviewing someone, they should be willing to spend the time and effort getting the CV proofread - or not showing the required experience on their CV.

I would never discount someone for having taken time away from employment for caring (children/ parents/ etc). In fact, if they could show how they have ensured they are still up to date, maybe by reading industry news and being able to talk about it, I would count them higher as they are more likely to be loyal to the company

I agree with you on this baby spider.
Tony Pidgley, who died recently, was the chairman of Berkeley Homes, and was often described as barely literate. yet he knew his market and thrived.

Work is more and more knowledge-based and virtually every job now will involve being able to communicate effectively in writing. Margins do not allow for the employing of admin support for anything other than very senior staff. If you cannot communicate with people effectively in writing, you are not going to be able to do most jobs. And if you don't know that you are a poor speller or you don't care enough to find ways around that for your CV, your first impression and key marketing document, then tbh you are demonstrating personal qualities that most employers don't want.

If you are functionally illiterate then you are going to have to find a way to prove that you have really high worth in another area enough to get people to be willing to support this.

The thing is, people will say oh I've applied for so many jobs and got nowhere. In my experience one of two things is true in those cases. Either:

1. they haven't applied for as many jobs as they think they have or
2. their application is falling down in some way.

I have received over 200 applications so far for the role I'm recruiting for. So far I would say I would consider interviewing maybe three of them at the very most. I would really love to interview more people but the quality of applications prevents me from doing so.

I tried to make my CV look exciting but it’s SO boring!!

I don't want an exciting CV! I just want a CV that is clear to read, to the point, not littered with spelling and grammatical errors and relevant to the job.

Probably the person who used hearts and stars instead of bullet points in the CV I read this morning thought they were making their CV "exciting". They weren't.

I know someone who sent her CV in on pink paper because 'it will stand out'. You'd love her, @pymchurchpeach. She's now into selling Avon and similar tat.

@PymChurchBeach no I mean my actual work history is boring!

Oh gosh I’d never use hearts and stars. When I hired my replacement we had CVs with glittery GIFS & WordArt

Mine is very clear & simple to look at but boring to read.

I think people are told they need to make their CV "stand out" and take this to mean they have to make it look "jazzy".

No! You'll "stand out" by sending me something concise, correct and relevant!

I saw a Marketing Managers CV had gone viral on LinkedIn earlier - it had KFC (I think!) pictures & logos all over it!!

So weird! And people had “liked” it & “applauded” it.

This thread is fab. I’m feeling a bit more positive that less is more when it comes to CV’s.

@PymChurchBeach

The thing is, people will say oh I've applied for so many jobs and got nowhere. In my experience one of two things is true in those cases. Either:

1. they haven't applied for as many jobs as they think they have or
2. their application is falling down in some way.

I have received over 200 applications so far for the role I'm recruiting for. So far I would say I would consider interviewing maybe three of them at the very most. I would really love to interview more people but the quality of applications prevents me from doing so.

I think this is very true. Years ago I went through a period of several years where I was very unhappy in my job and was applying for everything under the sun where I met the criteria. My confidence was rock bottom and in addition my parents had drilled it into me that the worst thing anyone could be was boastful.

I was utterly broken at the time, feeling completely worthless because no one wanted to employ me and I thought I was trapped there for life. With hindsight, my confidence was so low that I was more or less sending off application after application telling prospective employers that I was rubbish. No wonder I couldn't get an interview.

I can only speak from my experience, not as someone in HR but as someone who's been involved in recruiting for my teams over the years (as an aside, I really wished some of the HR people I've worked with took time to understand what each roles actually did!)

I didn't want to read exciting CVs, I just hoped that every now and then I saw one from someone who seemed to understand what the job in hand was about and showed some relevant experience of doing it. I never gave two hoots about how many O levels/GCSEs they had, and a degree was irrelevant to me, though HR would insist on them.

I highly rate askamanager.org/ for a manager-eye view of job application and interviews (and some really fun stories).

American resumes are slightly different to UK CVs, but I think this is a great site that I would encourage people to check out.

Basically IME what makes for a good CV is:

Name
Personal statement related to your suitability for the job (2 sentences max)
Achievements (3 bullets - numerically led for finance roles for example)
Chronological work history, three max 4 bullets for each and backing up the achievements bit
Professional Qualifications
Languages spoken (not essential)
Academic record

No fancy formatting (use Arial, Trebuchet, Calibri NOT COMIC SANS)
No photo for CVs for the UK
No DOB/address

Career breaks with dates cited (most commonly Mat Leave) - no details needed

And for a cover letter

The role for which you are applying referenced in the subject line with ref number

Why you are applying

What you do now and how it fits

Current status (ie I am an interim financial manager for a large NHS teaching trust on 400/day PAYE and my contract ends next month)

@MillicentMartha

My DS will be applying for his first job soon, he’s just finishing his HND. He has ASD, he may well need more support than the average candidate, both in an interview and in the role. If he doesn’t mention this at some point how’s he ever going to get past interview stage?

If I was advising your ds it would very much come down to how much he's comfortable disclosing and at what stage and would depend on the job and application processes. Generally I'd say don't put any information about disabilities or illness on a CV. Instead tick the disability box about needing extra support at interview and explain why separately to the CV . Or put the information in a confidential cover letter (or phone call) alongside the CV explaining what support would be needed at interview and why. If he will need support (or reasonable adjustments) in order to do the job then he will need to disclose this to the employer if he is going to have any disability protection.

But disclose any potential 'barriers' rather than positive skills on the CV (the very first information they learn about you) and I'm afraid it's all to easy for employers to put the CV on the no pile.

The modern insistence on a degree for roles which really don't require them is another bugbear of mine. Charities are the worst for this. You'll see basic admin roles where they're asking for 5 years of experience, plus a degree, and are paying something pathetic like 21k.

The modern insistence on a degree for roles which really don't require them is another bugbear of mine. Charities are the worst for this. You'll see basic admin roles where they're asking for 5 years of experience, plus a degree, and are paying something pathetic like 21k.

Yes, this. Drives me mad. A degree is helpful in some cases, but I've worked with many people who didn't have degrees but were brilliant at their job having taken full advantage of on the job training, mentoring etc. Plus just basic common sense or whatever. It's particularly annoying I think for middle aged people who can prove they can do the job as they've got experience, but no degree is a problem?

a question i have, which is relevant to some but not personally to me, is this:

i have been with my employer since 2015. in this time i've had 2 lots of maternity leave. if i was to update my cv, would i just not mention the maternity leave?

a friend is currently looking fro a new role and is putting her current role down in 2 blocks. one before mat leave and one after. even though her employment didnt end.

I've seen some clangers, but still prefer covering letter and cv to application form. It shows you a lot about how they present themselves, have they set it out logically, have they listened to what you need.

I did have a 5 page covering letter with little use of paragraphs and small text which was nightmare. If we have students in I often will take a bit of time to go through job applications. Before covid I also taught them a good handshake as I have seen candidates fail within two seconds of entering room by offering a wet lettuce handshake. It's little things like that that help them to look more confident

Yes, 'Madame' with an 'e' is probably only used in a profession which does not traditionally rely on a CV in the application process.

You'll see basic admin roles where they're asking for 5 years of experience, plus a degree, and are paying something pathetic like 21k.

and then whinge that there's a shortage of suitable candidates ...

Not HR, but I've been involved in screening CVs and recruiting new staff for the last 20 years

I've seen some classics, I work in a large but well connected industry - so lying that you were involved in x y z project is a sure fire way to see that CV in the bin. Especially when the person reading it was the project lead 🤣 This has happened more times that I can count!

Spelling - yes huge bug bear, use a spell check or get someone to check it for you. For engineers or someone with special much needed skills - I'm not bothered about the spelling, more their qualifications.

I've seen too many CVs with dreadful mug shuts, The worst ones were 20 years ago, lots of soft touch mood shot photos, with far too much on display. Even back then, that wasn't cool.

I can normally tell the CVs where they have taken them to some form of careers centre for help....wide spacing, strange fonts, over egging, far far too many personal details, and far far far far too long. If and only if I need a large amount of people fast, will I weed through this stack. It takes too much deciphering and time.

Keep it simple. If you haven't got a massive amount of work experience, do not pad it out. A succinct well laid out one pager is far more attractive than 3 pages of waffle with a photo of you poll dancing (yes I have seen more than one of these!).

Name
Email: proper email address not [email protected]
Telephone: your own number please and one that doesn't have a cheesy cutesy singing or hi bro you think I've picked up the phone but I haven't message!
Short profile summary of why you are good for this job/company. (Great where no covering letter is asked for)

Key skills/key achievements - but only if they match the job description, not the generic I've got great communication skills - yawn.

Career summary
The key is word is summary. Give a short summary on your most recent position- listing relevant details and evidence the skills required for the post you are applying for and similarly for the other most relevant jobs you have held.

Then literally one line each for the less relevant jobs if you have been asked to give a full work history - and if a full 10 year history is required do account for the month you took off between jobs. There is nothing wrong with putting "searching for new employment" or "parental responsibilities" - just don't give war and peace. But only do this where a full 10 year history has been specifically requested.

The next bit depends on when you left school. I would expect a relatively recent leaver to put there education history in, but no further back than GCSEs. For other candidates if you have a degree or further professional qualification put it in. Just keep if succinct. If the job advert or spec asks for certain qualifications, even if it is 5 GCSEs above C, put them in - but only if asked.

Additional qualifications: only really useful if you have qualifications that are relevant to the role. Grade 5 piano for an admin job is not relevant.

Other interests - unless you do something really really cool, or cake baking - I'm honestly not interested actually if it is a nice succinct CV, well thought out and meets the job specification and I've got that far - then it can be interesting, but it's really not needed.

Your CV is there to get you to an interview, it does not and should not be your life story.

One of my favourites was the repeated use of the word thieved instead of thrived. I thieved in my role etc