Terrible CVs

[PymChurchBeach]

Disclaimer: I know times are hard and shitty right now and a lot of people are desperate for work so probably chucking out CVs left right and centre at anything and everything.

BUT. I have worked in HR for nearly a decade now and it has always been the same. The general standard of CVs is bloody awful. I'm recruiting for a mid level role at the moment and I have seen the following:

• people using little hearts and stars instead of bullet points
• massive glamour model style photographs taking up the whole first page of a CV
• people's dates of birth and marital statuses written up at the top. Just no!!!
• wacky, colourful borders and fonts. Comic sans. Enough said.

Also - this last one is possibly controversial but when women have had a break to look after DC, there really is no need to list all the skills gained as a SAHM - e.g. "excellent time management skills etc". You can just say you had time out to raise children. That's all you need to say. I'm not going to think any the worse of you for it.

I am desperate to implement application forms rather than have CVs and cover letters but my CEO is old fashioned and will not have it.

It is worrying that this thread shows some of the 'bad' cvs are based on school and job centre advice. What are applicants supposed to do if those places give them this advice? Yes, they could go online bit if you are inexperienced at CV writing you are probably going to struggle to identify which online advice is good and bad - especially if the 'authority' advice from schools and job centres is lining up with bad advice. Then mix in changing advice from when you were younger (if you haven't done a CV for a while), different country norms, and different sector preferences.... it's a minefield.

I like the "Interests" bit of a CV. If I'm going to employ you (especially in a small team) I like to know what kind of human being you are, and what you choose to do in your downtime. I know it doesn't necessarily affect your ability to do the job, but if I'm going to be stuck in the same room as you for hours a day, I'd like to know who you are.

I agree, but do you really want to work for an employer like that?

With 600,000 people loosing their jobs recently, maybe they don't have the luxury of choice?

YY, hobbies and interests section is a bit old fashioned on a CV nowadays so feel free to leave off entirely. Or if you want to include it, just a few short lines 'In my spare time I enjoy reading, golf and cooking' or similar. Probably best not to mention swinging parties, BNP meetings or your 50 cats, just in case .

Like others, I'd rather see a short but honest CV that covers relevant qualifications, skills and work history (including relevant voluntary work/work experience), than a 'padded' one that fills in any gaps with irrelevant stuff like a picture or information about your hobbies etc. But I do think the JobCentre and various CV writing courses continue to insist that CVs must absolutely be 2 sides of A4 in 12 point font no matter how little of relevance you have to say which I think is what leads to the extensive descriptions of what you've learnt from being a SAHM, doing your A levels at college, or your hobby as a paraglider or whatever so I do tend to forgive people that have done it even though I personally find it a bit cringe.

And yes, please please use a professional sounding email account, it literally costs nothing and takes maybe 5 minutes to set a new hotmail or gmail account up, even if you only ever use it for applying for jobs??

It’s often a lack of tailoring too. So, when I was applying to do a placement in Brussels for an NGO, having conversational French and basic Russian was relevant. When I applied to be an accountant in a UK only firm I didn’t mention it. Equally, the research paper I had published would be relevant for a job in the pharmaceutical industry (even in accounts as it reminds them I understand their business) but doesn’t make the cut for financial services applications.

Ok, as someone about to lose their job after 23 years in the role, any advice on what things are best to include to stand out? Half of the sample cvs I’ve found online did have CV as the title and did have DOB on them. Feeling a little deflated after reading this thread.

Maaaaany cover emails starting 'Dear Sirs'.

How should one begin an email going to a generic email box account?

@JasperRising

It is worrying that this thread shows some of the 'bad' cvs are based on school and job centre advice. What are applicants supposed to do if those places give them this advice? Yes, they could go online bit if you are inexperienced at CV writing you are probably going to struggle to identify which online advice is good and bad - especially if the 'authority' advice from schools and job centres is lining up with bad advice. Then mix in changing advice from when you were younger (if you haven't done a CV for a while), different country norms, and different sector preferences.... it's a minefield.

An alternative view is that the really good candidates will simply rise to the top ...

At the end of the day it's not the CV that has to do the job. it's a person ...

Full time unpaid caring responsibilities for kids/disabled people/elderly or sick people tend not to be valued in our society but the people who carry them out probably think they are worthwhile and they've gained qualities/strengths from them. I think its ok to have an opinion about them mentioning these on the CV but not to discriminate against women (let's face it it's usually women) solely for mentioning what they've gained from this period of caring

An employer's not conducting a referendum on whether this period of your life is worthy or whether you've gained from it, though. They're assessing whether you are the best available candidate for a specific job, and unless it is in caring for children or older people, what you have gained from a period of full-time caring is not going to be relevant. It's not an employer's job to validate this period any more than it's an employer's job to validate me for the fact that I took a career break to go travelling. Yes, some day it might be helpful to my work to have gained some insight into SE Asian cultures, but probably not, and it's not a skill that anyone else can validate.

A CV is not required to document everything you've ever done and what you gained from it. It's a marketing document to show how well your skills and experience fit a specific job. For all an employer knows you were a terrible, irritable, sloppy carer or SAHM; no employer can value skills that you can offer zero proof of.

Yes. PLEASE do not address your cover letter "Dear Sirs". It is not 1950.

To whom it may concern is fine, if no named indvidual is in the job pack.

@MilkTwoSugarsThanks

Maaaaany cover emails starting 'Dear Sirs'.

How should one begin an email going to a generic email box account?

I think 'Dear Sir/Madame'

@MilkTwoSugarsThanks

Maaaaany cover emails starting 'Dear Sirs'.

How should one begin an email going to a generic email box account?

Dear Hiring Manager.

Theres also the fact that you have to apply for jobs to continue to receive universal credit. Plenty of people don't really want a job so send in a bad CV to show the work coach they had applied for work but really had absolutely no intention of taking the post.

@honeyroar, maybe turn the issue around and imagine you were reading a load of CVs for your current role - what would be most important?
The only other thing I'd add, is be prepared to tailor your CV for different vacancies so you emphasis your skills and experience most relevant for each role.

@honeyroar sorry to hear about your job

Personally I'd say a nice simple template, no fancy borders or mixing fonts. A short 'summary' at the top tailored to each individual job, drawing out your best/most impressive selling points and experience.

Then list your work experience in chronological order (most recent first) with a short, easy to read, jargon free explanation of what each role was and your key duties and/or achievements in each job. If you did different jobs within the same company then you can either split them out or group together, whichever makes more sense. Feel free to summarise or group older jobs together e.g '1980-1990 various sales roles in the pharmacuetical industry' or whatever, and don't feel obliged to list the Saturday job you had at college unless it's relevant (I know some online guides insist the work history must be 'full and complete' but personally I think that's nonsense). Include a short explanation of any gaps e.g. 2005-2007 undertaking a full time degree, 2010-2012 career break to raise children or similar.

Then a section with your qualifications, education history and any relevant training or certification (you don't need to include every training course you've ever been on but do make sure to include any they have said are relevant in the JD or advert). Then if you have space, a brief 'hobbies and interests' section and list your referees, or say 'references available on request'.

Make sure you always carefully tailor your cover letter or supporting statement in particular to the job, give specific examples of how you can demonstrate the relevant competencies and skills (so rather than 'I am competent with payroll software' say 'I have used X, Y and Z software packages in my roles as Administrator in A company and Payroll Officer in B company'), and why you would be a good fit for the particular role. Do not simply copy and paste from previous applications, as you are liable to go straight in the bin if you write (as a PP said) 'I have always wanted to work for the NHS' when it's a civil service job or vice versa!

Very, very thoroughly proof read both your CV and supporting letter before sending, ideally get someone else to cast a eye over it too. Avoid acronyms unless they are standard in your industry and watch your jargon and/or overly flowery, gushy language. Try and keep everything as clear and business like as possible!

Good luck!

Speaking as someone who’s recruited and interviewed a whole bunch of people, mostly graduates for the financial sector, I think DelurkingAJ is going too far. I would be more than happy to see a brief listing of people’s scientific publications, language ability and a certain amount of detail about their work in random fields. It gives you something concrete to talk about to get a sense of who they are.

I have a couple of publications in areas unrelated to my line of work and they definitely do go on my CV as an added eye-catching detail in the brief “other interests” section. If I spoke Russian then it would totally be in there as well: you never know whether they’ve just been approached to do the accounts for their local expatriate oligarch.

@DelurkingAJ Yes, the tailoring is very important. I was just helping someone with a CV who wants to work for a charity so we've included a lot more detail of her various volunteering work. If she wanted to work in the city, I'd include the volunteering but in fairly short-form without the detail.

I do agree that it's a real pity that information out there is so erratic. Job centres, schools and universities need to get up to speed on what's appropriate. Also, I think most of us would agree that including hobbies might be irrelevant in 2020 but we're unlikely to bin a cv for it. But endless spelling mistakes, not demonstrating any experience, blatantly lying, inappropriate language are far more likely to lead to the chop.

The women returning one is tricky. I sympathise with women trying to prove that they haven't been sitting at home letting their brains atrophy but always tell people that unless you did something specific during ML - studied part time, set up a small business etc - the skills gained are not relevant. The only exception was a woman I met with a child with SN. She'd been navigating and advocating for him for years and he was now full time education. I can't remember what job she was looking for - it wasn't something specific like nurse or speech therapist - but from memory, it was in the NHS/educational system so we agreed that demonstrating she has some knowledge of the system as her previous job had been at a bank was helpful!

it’s so hard for people to know what style of CV recruiters are looking for, what they ought to put first, what counts as an “acceptable” hobby to mention, coming across as a knob because you haven’t used the particular font an office prefers

All of these questions are easily answerable with a bit of research. CVs should generally be chronological in style, although if you are career changing or have other unusual circumstances you might want a skills based one. There are numerous templates for every style online. Most recent job or occupation goes first. Focus on UK specific resources as employment laws differ. Apply common sense. Any hobby that could not be filed under TMI is fine, but if you're going to have a line for hobbies don't just say "shopping and watching TV". Leave off hobbies altogether if unsure. Offices don't have preferred fonts, the only expectation is to use a clean, professional font that a business letter might be written in. Arial will do fine. Comic Sans is notorious for looking childlike and sloppy.

My "wishlist" in a CV, for those asking:

• Plain, black, sensibly sized font - no colour, no wacky font (arial, calibri, times new roman etc all fine)
• you should not be putting anything at all on your CV that comes under protected characteristics. No marital status, no DOB, no sex, no ethnicity, no disability, no sexuality. The exception to this is if you're applying for a role which is using an exemption to the equalities act (e.g. you're applying for a role at a women's refuge which means you need to be female). And many companies will use positive action to guarantee an interview to a disabled or BAME candidate if they meet all the essential criteria, but that will be stated somewhere if so. If it isn't, don't put it in.
• Clear headings.
• In terms of contact info - I want your name, your email address and your contact telephone number. I don't need an address.
• Employment history (paid and voluntary) starting with the most recent and including any gaps - but you don't need to go into detail. Saying 2014-17: break to raise children/sabbatical to go travelling is totally fine. Don't include the saturday job you had at M&S in 1986. Employment history should include a brief description of your duties and skills gained in your most recent and relevant roles.
• Education history and qualifications starting with the most recent, but you don't need to list all your GCSEs/O levels etc. Saying you have X number of GCSEs at grades X-X, including English and Maths is fine.
• Work related qualifications, if any
• A section with any skills not covered by your employment history, like a second language or specific software packages etc.
• I don't mind either way if applicants do hobbies and interests as long as it is only a sentence or two at most (unless it is of direct relevance to the role applied for).
• Number your pages. Proofread! Make sure the formatting is correct and everything is lined up.

Thank you @Ifailed and @maxelly

Also if you're writing a cover letter, it needs to be tailored for each job; it is really obvious when someone has done a generic one and used it to apply for multiple roles. Don't say "your company" or "your organisation". Refer to it by name. And FGS make sure you address all the points in the person specification.

"My bugbear was spelling"

Is that a valid reason to say someone should be out in the scrap heap and told. 'They're unemployable'. Just because they have trouble spelling doesn't mean they wouldn't be an excellent worker. Obviously it does depend on the line of work.

But it's not really about the spelling. It's about the fact they're writing a CV and can't be bothered to spell check it. It says something about their attention to detail and their judgement that they don't think it matters enough to double check.

Thank you @PymChurchBeach

@MilkTwoSugarsThanks

Maaaaany cover emails starting 'Dear Sirs'.

How should one begin an email going to a generic email box account?

To whom it may concern

Dear Sir/Madam,

Dear Hiring (or Recruiting) Manager,

Good morning/afternoon,

or even, in these end days of total informality

Hello, (or, shudder, 'hi!')

all fine - except maybe 'hi' unless it's one of those uber-cool aspiring-to-be-google companies . None of them will get you noticed in a negative way which is all you want really!

This is the advert I got on the page