Terrible CVs

[PymChurchBeach]

Disclaimer: I know times are hard and shitty right now and a lot of people are desperate for work so probably chucking out CVs left right and centre at anything and everything.

BUT. I have worked in HR for nearly a decade now and it has always been the same. The general standard of CVs is bloody awful. I'm recruiting for a mid level role at the moment and I have seen the following:

• people using little hearts and stars instead of bullet points
• massive glamour model style photographs taking up the whole first page of a CV
• people's dates of birth and marital statuses written up at the top. Just no!!!
• wacky, colourful borders and fonts. Comic sans. Enough said.

Also - this last one is possibly controversial but when women have had a break to look after DC, there really is no need to list all the skills gained as a SAHM - e.g. "excellent time management skills etc". You can just say you had time out to raise children. That's all you need to say. I'm not going to think any the worse of you for it.

I am desperate to implement application forms rather than have CVs and cover letters but my CEO is old fashioned and will not have it.

My previous NHS boss, very high level NHS job, it wasn't a CV but her linked in profile. The photograph on it was of her relaxing in an incredibly low cut top that practically showed her nipples holding a huge glass of red wine.

I have long ago removed all dates, CV, DOB, as well as Hobbies and Interests from my CV, as even I could see that my bookclub attendance and enjoyment of going on holiday is pretty irrelevant to my job in Tech.

I specifically removed O levels (last year of them) as I felt that really showed my age and you have to appear youthful and modern in outlook in my role.

So the only cv crime I am left with I think is that it starts with My Name at the top in large font and then my email address and telephone number underneath (sensible gmail address involving just my full name). However, I do have my vague address in between. So not my full address but something like Reading, Berkshire.

I am unsure whether to take this off? Only becasue I am often asked by recruiters if I can commute easily into London or am near an airport for travel etc - so I wonder if it helps mentally tick that box?

The post has enough info about the role, where it’s based, that you could wfh 3 days a week etc, that I’m inclined to think it is real

Fair enough; generally speaking the more info there is the more likely it is to be real (though some of them can be pretty inventive). The big "tell" can be when they post identical jobs in numerous different areas, but then I'm sure you've thought of that

Still not impressed by the lack of communication though; it's a key issue in this sector and even if she's quivering with Covid you'd think somebody could have got back to you

@NewNewt

I have long ago removed all dates, CV, DOB, as well as Hobbies and Interests from my CV, as even I could see that my bookclub attendance and enjoyment of going on holiday is pretty irrelevant to my job in Tech.

I specifically removed O levels (last year of them) as I felt that really showed my age and you have to appear youthful and modern in outlook in my role.

So the only cv crime I am left with I think is that it starts with My Name at the top in large font and then my email address and telephone number underneath (sensible gmail address involving just my full name). However, I do have my vague address in between. So not my full address but something like Reading, Berkshire.

I am unsure whether to take this off? Only becasue I am often asked by recruiters if I can commute easily into London or am near an airport for travel etc - so I wonder if it helps mentally tick that box?

No don't take it off for exactly the reason you mention. Employers want to know where you're travelling from and if the commute is realistic.

Also, I personally don't like CVs to have no work dates on. I want to know if an employee stayed with a company for 10 years or they were sacked after 3 days.

A good track record of being in jobs for a decent period of time is in your favour. Removing all dates looks like you're hiding something (like the ten years stretch you did in Strangeways).

Speaking as somebody who has interviewed I would not look down on anybody who lists skills gained as a full time parent. I think it shows a bit of initiative. Dont go OTT just a few bullet points will suffice.

But what if the company isn’t listed

Little trick that's worked for me: Try googling phrases from the job spec. Quite often, the job spec comes from the firm itself and the recruiter has just tried to take out names. Particularly worth googling phrases that include any sorts of language that might be jargonish eg the way departments are referred to etc. Also do a search within LinkedIn.

I have found the actual job posting, from the company itself, a few times this way.....

@livinthevidalockdown
Role 2 bought the book of business from role 1 and hired some staff - new contracts etc so new role.

Role 3 headhunted me - hours were better suited to me, more pay, better career progression... or so I thought until I was made redundant

So, Role 2 was you were basically transferred when that company bought the business from Role 1? If that's the case, I'd list those as one job ie dates, company name and job title immediately underneath each other then a BRIEF one line explanation:
Started role at Company X and continued in role at Company Y after acquisition of business in DATE.

Then for Role 3, your first comment/ line says,
"Headhunted to join team with ambitious growth plans and long-term career progression" or whatever. Normally, I wouldn't give reasons for departure from a role in the CV but at a push you could say as above then add something like, "... until firm forced to downsize as a result of...."

During my time at XYZ Company I was instrumental in streamlining ABC system which reduced turnaround times, enhanced quality and minimised the opportunity for error. This ABC system reduced the workload across all relevant teams.

Absolutely. If you can be more specific, all the better "minimised manual errors by 70%". But if not, fine. If "instrumental in streamlining" is a modest way of saying led the project, replace with, "led the effort to...". Please don't be modest.

If any of these types of things were your idea/ you'd been brought in specifically to help do this as you had the experience etc, then say that on your CV.

@BlingLoving

But what if the company isn’t listed

Little trick that's worked for me: Try googling phrases from the job spec. Quite often, the job spec comes from the firm itself and the recruiter has just tried to take out names. Particularly worth googling phrases that include any sorts of language that might be jargonish eg the way departments are referred to etc. Also do a search within LinkedIn.

I have found the actual job posting, from the company itself, a few times this way.....

Oh, and a really good google phrase is anything that describes the company. "This dynamic company that is driving technology to the 21st century..." That's usually linked to their brand messaging etc and comes up super quick. You can then go manually look on their careers page for the job....

[quote BlingLoving]@livinthevidalockdown
Role 2 bought the book of business from role 1 and hired some staff - new contracts etc so new role.

Role 3 headhunted me - hours were better suited to me, more pay, better career progression... or so I thought until I was made redundant

So, Role 2 was you were basically transferred when that company bought the business from Role 1? If that's the case, I'd list those as one job ie dates, company name and job title immediately underneath each other then a BRIEF one line explanation:
Started role at Company X and continued in role at Company Y after acquisition of business in DATE.

Then for Role 3, your first comment/ line says,
"Headhunted to join team with ambitious growth plans and long-term career progression" or whatever. Normally, I wouldn't give reasons for departure from a role in the CV but at a push you could say as above then add something like, "... until firm forced to downsize as a result of...."

During my time at XYZ Company I was instrumental in streamlining ABC system which reduced turnaround times, enhanced quality and minimised the opportunity for error. This ABC system reduced the workload across all relevant teams.

Absolutely. If you can be more specific, all the better "minimised manual errors by 70%". But if not, fine. If "instrumental in streamlining" is a modest way of saying led the project, replace with, "led the effort to...". Please don't be modest.

If any of these types of things were your idea/ you'd been brought in specifically to help do this as you had the experience etc, then say that on your CV.[/quote]
Yes, great I will do that! Why didn't I think of that? 🙄😂

And yes, I was being modest so I won't be and will sell myself!

Thank you for your help!!

Inappropriate email addresses. I've seen many along the lines of dopehead@hotmail, hotsexkitten@yahoo, bigdongdave@whatever

When I used to sign on at a job centre there were posters up all around about having a work appropriate email address. To me that was bleeding obvious, but you know....

Anyway they also had 'experts' to re do your CV. I basically had to re do it myself it was shit and had various typos! Full of cliches too!

And yes, I was being modest so I won't be and will sell myself!

I've just done a civil service application with competency-based questions where I had to use the STAR approach. I'm not one for shouting about my talents so I found it quite hard, but on reflection it's actually really useful to think about my role in various projects and the things that I've achieved.

Thanks to everyone who's contributed advice to this thread - I have found it incredibly helpful.

How come we always complain about bad cvs but never complain about the shitty pointless questions and criteria we have to fill in for job adverts that have no relevance. Or how now job adverts have a select option part so if you dont have 5 years experience in obscure thing for a junior role you cant even get an interview even though you would be great at the job.

*And yes, I was being modest so I won't be and will sell myself!

Thank you for your help!!*

Good! Don't overstate, but don't understate either. If you're part of a team, say that. If you led, say that. If you were responsible for sub project x as part of bigger project Y, say that.

Good luck!!

Think of your CV as the work equivalent of a dating profile.

If all you did was list yourself as being age 38, brown hair, brown eyes, and in good working order, you wouldn't get much meaningful interest!

It's the same with a CV - you need to bring yourself and your skills to life. What's different about you, what can you do that means that you'd be the better person for this job than any other candidate?

@Puzzledandpissedoff I completely agree. Her role is to match up employees and employers, you’d think prompt communication would be key! I wouldn’t dream of not returning someone’s call, and I don’t even work in recruitment.

How come we always complain about bad cvs but never complain about the shitty pointless questions and criteria we have to fill in for job adverts that have no relevance

Such as?

I think CVs do vary by sector. I work in IT. I would expect all CVs/applications to be online. No point handing a CV in in person - the HR person dealing with a particular vacancy may not be in the same country, let alone the same office. (In any case, there's no one in the office just now.)

CVs with us will be circulated electronically; HR do the first sift, and they have been talking about blind applications, though I'm not sure if they've actually implemented this yet. Black print on white background works best, because HR might edit out the personal data (name etc), and hiring managers might print the CV, though it's not encouraged.

We get 100s of applications. The first job of your CV is to get through the first sift, and it might only get a few seconds glance. It might be done electronically, looking for key words, which is why my CV says, "10 GCSEs, including English and maths," even though I wouldn't have accepted on my degree courses without English and maths GCSEs, so it should be taken for granted.

I am in a technical role, so I have a technical skills section, which is very dull, but the roles I've been for to date, if I don't list the key skills for that role, it doesn't matter how brilliant the rest of my CV is. For other roles, that won't be so relevant. The rest of my experience is scattered with buzzwords like ITIL and Agile and so on, though not entirely randomly; it does reflect my work over the years! You need to reflect words from the key skills in the job ad, because they're the words they want to jump out in a skim read. If they're there, then your CV will get a second, closer read.

What makes this difficult is there is no such thing as a perfect CV. A format which works well for one job won't cut it in another, which could be down to a different focus in the job specs or just personal preference from the hiring managers. But if you've covered basics like spellchecking and tidy format, you're at least ahead of those who didn't bother.

CV formats do differ between countries, so if you're going for a job elsewhere, you need to find out what is expected there.

I wouldn't reject someone for including their DoB, but it would make me wonder how much they knew about the Equality Act and protected characteristics, and why they think it's still relevant.

When it comes to hobbies - when Mum went back to work, she had a lot of experience from volunteering as Secretary for one local society, as chair of her gardening club. And in my previous job, most of the interview as I remember was about the relative merits of doughnuts available from local supermarkets. I mentioned that I sometimes baked and brought in cakes, and it was later pointed out that I didn't do this half as often as they had inferred from what I said at interview. There was a technical section to the interview, but it seemed to be the cakes that got me the job offer... Having said that, it wasn't on my CV, just came up in interview.

A while back, I did mock interviews with one of the local schools; that's an interesting experience, because everyone gets an interview, regardless of how good or bad their application forms were; in the workplace, I'd never have seen some of the really bad ones - some would never have applied anyway, and others wouldn't have got past HR to the hiring manager. Hobbies and so on do count there, because most of them (14 &15yos) hadn't even had a Saturday job yet, but the ones who had captained a football team or led a team on a DofE expedition or did first aid with St John Ambulance or something did stand out. You don't get such a range of candidates in the workplace once you get to interview.

"NewNewt

I have long ago removed all dates, CV, DOB, as well as Hobbies and Interests from my CV, as even I could see that my bookclub attendance and enjoyment of going on holiday is pretty irrelevant to my job in Tech.

I specifically removed O levels (last year of them) as I felt that really showed my age and you have to appear youthful and modern in outlook in my role.

So the only cv crime I am left with I think is that it starts with My Name at the top in large font and then my email address and telephone number underneath (sensible gmail address involving just my full name). However, I do have my vague address in between. So not my full address but something like Reading, Berkshire.

I am unsure whether to take this off? Only becasue I am often asked by recruiters if I can commute easily into London or am near an airport for travel etc - so I wonder if it helps mentally tick that box?"

No don't take it off for exactly the reason you mention. Employers want to know where you're travelling from and if the commute is realistic.

Also, I personally don't like CVs to have no work dates on. I want to know if an employee stayed with a company for 10 years or they were sacked after 3 days.

A good track record of being in jobs for a decent period of time is in your favour. Removing all dates looks like you're hiding something (like the ten years stretch you did in Strangeways).

Ah sorry, I meant I had taken off DOB, dates of my exams etc - I havent removed the dates when I worked at each company in my job history - that would be terrible I think. Like you say, they need to know if you worked there for 1 month (didn't worked out) or 25 years (you are an inflexible dinosaur) or somewhere in between.

Can anyone in HR/Recruitment help? An application form states:

Please list all your qualifications in date order, starting with A Levels or equivalent. Include grades attained and class or grade of your degree (if applicable)

Does this mean, A levels first and then degree but don't include GCSEs? Confusing because it says please list ALL qualifications in date order. If they want GCSEs where do you put them if you must start with A levels and they want qualifications in date order.

I feel like this is a bizarre test and I will fail it because I either put the GCSEs in the wrong place or because I miss them off. I cannot put ALL qualifications down in date order if I start with A levels as requested.

The application form wants personal details (name/address etc), qualifications and work history. Plus a CV and a covering letter.

I don't work in recruitment @WerkHorse but I would take that to mean don't include your gcse results, so list everything from A levels onwards.

Agree, that means don't list your quals under your A level equivalent. Presumably it's a job requiring higher level qualifications.

@WiseOwl69 @Puzzledandpissedoff lots of reasons she may not have called yet, possibly including:

Too many applications already
Someone at the client is isolating/absent
Vacancy has been put on hold but likely to reopen later
You're in a queue of applicants she hasn't reviewed yet
They're screening all her calls as she is catching up on work missed during furlough-she may not know whose call she's missed at all
The job centre encourage people to apply for everything advertised, regardless of skills/location or face sanctions and that clogs up the sift too.

Basically post lockdown there's more applicants than jobs in many cases and it isn't possible to speak to everyone sadly.
A couresty email would be best practice though I agree.

Thanks!

I once read one where someone had listed “magic mushrooms” under “interests”. Shame, because they’d spelled everything correctly otherwise.

How else would you spell magic mushrooms?