Mum says I caused her divorce and I’m going to cause my own divorce too

[Molocosh]

My mum has told me I caused her divorce and if I don’t look sharp I’ll end up divorcing my own husband for the same reason.

My son (age 2) doesn’t sleep, never has. He never goes to sleep until at least 10-11pm, sometimes after midnight. We have no child free time without him. Each night one of us takes him to bed at 8pm and has to stay there for hours while the other watches tv downstairs then goes to bed alone. When he wakes up during the night I get in his bed with him and end up falling asleep. My mum often jokes that he’s her revenge on me because I never slept either.

Unsurprisingly we don’t get the chance to cuddle or kiss or have sex, or even make eye contact and talk, because we constantly have a child with us. Apparently he’s been whinging that I don’t have time for him. So my mum has told me that my dad used to say the same thing, and then he divorced her. She said I destroyed their relationship because I didn’t sleep for several years so they had no adult time together.

Needless to say I feel like shit because I’ve been told that I caused my parents’ divorce. And now I’m worried about my own marriage because I thought we were coping the best we can with a crap situation - but he’s obviously unhappy and I don’t see what I can do about it? I have a child glued to me round the clock and I have no choice about that?

Oh OP, I sympathise

What your mum said is totally out of order, but I think in a roundabout way, she does have a point. No alone time with your husband for two years sounds awful - and if it goes on for a long time, it will impact on your relationship. I think she's (clumsily) trying to hint that you need to do something about it now.

I think 8pm bedtime is too late - I would bring it forward to about 6.30pm or so. Use blackout blinds so his room is kept nice and dark, and maybe a fan to a) keep the room nice and cool and b) to provide white noise. I'm 31 now and still need darkness and white noise to get a decent night's sleep!

Then just use the Supernanny technique for bedtime - put a duvet or something over his baby gate so he can't hurt himself and just keep returning him to bed. No chatting, no eye contact, just "bedtime DS" the first time, then "bedtime" the second time, then nothing. Just return him to his bed with no eye contact. You're already spending hours upstairs getting him to bed so this won't be more time-consuming than that.

Good luck.

if he wasn’t getting enough sleep he would not be up and ready for the day so early, he would just sleep in

This is absolutely not always accurate. Good sleep begets good sleep, plenty of children who go to bed too late also wake too early. It absolutely sounds to me that the OPs son is not getting enough sleep at either end of the day.

That smug post is so nasty. Op I would firmly tell your mother that you are not going to talk to her again while she blames you for her life failures. Then tell your dh that moaning to your mum hasn't done much good - making you feel less attracted to him. Fuck them both. Assholes.

Ah, I was that child. I slept between midnight and 5am until I was a teenager. I never napped either. My mother told me that I nearly broke her, and I know that this - along with my younger brother nearly dying twice of pneumonia - was one of the reasons my parents divorced.

I now have an ADHD diagnosis. I wish my mother had known that. It wasn't anything she could have done something about.

But a firm and consistent routine wouldn't have made the blindest bit of difference to anyone. What my parents did do - and when I was a bit older - was just put me to bed and as long as I stayed there with the light off they didn't care. Can you make the bedroom as childproof as possibly, even if this means taking everything out?

Also he isn't even up and ready for the day, he goes back to sleep in the morning!

@CatteStreet

'Then can you say that, and not use "spectrummy" please? there is no such thing as slightly spectrummy, as I said it's all very "we're all on the spectrum somewhere" and not an appropriate term to use.'

Logically, 'slightly spectrummy' and 'we're all on the spectrum somewhere' are mutually exclusive. Because if I believed we were all on the spectrum somewhere, I wouldn't mention my child as being 'slightly spectrummy' and (as implied) non-typical. I'm happy not to use the term 'spectrummy' if it offends you. I'll use 'slightly neurodiverse' instead. But I'd quite like an apology for your aggressive attack on me, and for your minor derail of the OP's thread. Thanks.

I will not apologise to you for pulling you up on your use of language that I find inappropriate.

I am not allowed (according to MN rules) to make thread about a thread, so I have nowhere else to ask you about your wording. We are always told to tackle things in the thread they happen in, which I did.

As you are clearly not a moderator here, or the op, I do not owe you an apology for "derailing" anything.

I second girlwhowearsglasses, great advice.

FedUpAtHomeTroels

Empty his room of everything except his bed. Do a bath and a story downstairs. I'd start this at 7. After this, take him to bed, tuck him in and leave the room. Stand outside out of sight. If you hear him get out of bed, and you think it's to do something dangerous, enter the room, say bedtime now and put him back in bed.

Repeat as many times as necessary but stay silent. Don't talk. Dont look at him.

It'll take hours, but what you do now takes hours. Tomorrow it will take a little less time. Each night this will take less and less time.

This ^^ I had to do this with ds1. Also very bright and had full conversations at 18m. It takes time but works. Don't give up too soon if you try it. It's much better for ds if you get him into a good sleep pattern and less reliant on you.

Ds1 is almost 23 now and earning twice my wage! Irrelevant but he turned out fantastic. Never had any trouble with him at all. Ds2 was a nightmare between 2 and 3 and cranial osteopathy worked miracles. I know people rubbish it but even his pre school leaders were shocked.

I hope you’re okay @Molocosh

So don't get a random, get someone who has a DBS and a childcare qualification
Like Vanessa George?

In what context did you mum say it? Was it a smug 'you caused me and your dad to divorce because you wouldn't go to sleep, and now it's going to happen to you too because your son doesn't sleep either' or was it a slightly concerned don't know how to put this but 'when you were a baby we struggled to get time alone because you didn't sleep, and now I can see the same is happening to you, and I'm worried for your marriage' because they could be two whole different conversations. If it was the first then your mum is spiteful and you shouldn't have her in your life to the extent that she is, however if it is the second one then you need to lean on her for support.

Your husband also sounds like he needs a foot up his arse, your son is not just your child, he is his too and he should be helping find a solution instead of whining at you to find one so he can have more sex! I am amazed at the amount of dads I read about on here though who think that as soon as babies start sleeping through you'll be back at it 3 times a night for context my daughter is a fairly good sleeper, goes to bed around 8:30pm and wakes at around 6:30, so by the time she's settled in bed and we're both back downstairs we're still absolutely shattered, it's hard work looking after young children, especially on little sleep so he should be either cutting you some slack or helping fix the issue

'pulling you up'

'What the hell does that mean?', IIRC, without checking back.

Is that how you 'pull people up' on language you consider inappropriate in RL?

Okay-I have RTFT and whilst I’m filtering out all the disagreements-my honest first thought was also that your child may in the long term need assesment for ASD, it’s generally not considered standard for them to injure themselves to that degree.
And the fact that you also didn’t sleep-have you ever questioned Aspergers/ASD for yourself? Just a thought.

I have a DS of the same age and I’m convinced being very consistent and firm about routine is what helped us get him to sleep through from 7pm to 6am every day.

Says someone who is totally deluded and naively smug.

DC1 and DC2 had a very firm and consistent routine and slept more than 12 hours at night from very young. DC4 had exactly the same and has never slept well. It’s just ignorance (and it’s also hilarious) to believe deciding to have a firm and consistent routine is behind getting them to sleep.

OP, I’d advise seeing a sleep consultant. Find one who is well recommended and properly follow their advice. I’d also go and see your GP to rule out any underlying issues since your HV is being so unhelpful.

@CatteStreet

Actually, isn't the very idea of a spectrum intended to take account of people that don't meet the diagnosis threshold, but whose behaviours can be better understood by NT people if there is an understanding that they relate to the spectrum? Understanding aspects of ASC has certainly given me a great deal of insight into responding to and helping my ds.

Anyway, I'll stop - can't accuse you of derailing and then go on to do the same.

NO, the very idea of the spectrum is to describe/highlight how those who are autistic are all different, and how autism is a spectrum, it doesn't account/include for those who aren't autistic.

I agree that using tactics that help those on the spectrum can help with those who aren't. In fact it would help MOST kids, to be fair.

Hi, OP was first was like this except for a long nap. Like you we were cosleepers who would never use controlled crying. I can’t say I have the answers for you but this is what worked for us. Get up at 7 even if we have had a bad nights sleep, outside as much as possible during the day, absolutely no toys in the bedroom except for one white noise comforter, same bedtime routine but we alternated parents, after you have read stories and lights out lay down yourself and go to sleep, if they talk then saying it’s nighttime mummy is going to sleep, even if they get out of bed and mess around with the curtains then ignore. Daddy needs to build his relationship with the little one, they need to go out together regularly without you there.

You and your DH should try reading the how not to hate your husband after kids book.

It is true that you can't make a child sleep. If you really have tried all the many techniques then I would suggest you focus on enabling him to be able to spend a little time away from you. By that, I mean in his bedroom at night or playing independently near you during the day. Try to distinguish that from being made to sleep.

As my non-sleeper got to be an older toddler, I accepted that I couldn't make her sleep but I could manage to get her to stay quietly in her room with little to stimulate her. Boredom won in the end.

Sorry for the lack of sentences and typos. I’m getting the baby down for a nap.

I think he has learned to control you with this behaviour.
He doesn't know what is best for him.
I would keep him up with you in the tv room until you go to bed at 11. Do not let him doze, do not put him to bed asleep. Keep him awake. Put him to bed at 11.
If he bangs his head go in and tuck him in and say good night, as often as it needs. There needs to be no gain for him in his behaviour. You might have to do this for a week. And absolutely no day time naps.
You can definitely break this, you have to be stubborn and accept you will have little sleep for a week or however long it takes.

OP, I think the babysitter thing is a side issue, so I don't really want to go on about it, but you do seem distinctly mistrustful of 'outsiders', which sometimes does make things more difficult.

In all honesty, for now, I would be inclined (alongside exploring the potential ASC thing) to go along with what he needs for now, but in order to do that you need your husband to put his convenience and his ego aside a lot more than he seems willing to do.

Listen to @Summersunandoranges

Your routine at the moment is insane. And all your child is learning is how to get your attention.
Remove everything from his room but his bed. Climbing under the mattress isn't dangerous. It won't suffocate him. And talk to your GP about Melatonin.

But really, what you're doing at the moment is just making things worse.

I also want to say that your parents caused your divorce. Bringing up children is hard work, especially if they are non sleepers, SEN or unwell. Your parents decided they didn’t want to stay together and coparent. Your relationship is different but I do think you need to talk to your DH and make sure he stops complaining to your mother and instead discusses things with you.

I wouldn't say that my ds (for instance) 'isn't' autistic, though. But I also wouldn't say he is. He's certainly not straightforwardly NT.

Anyway, I don't have anything invested in defining the spectrum - just saying the idea of it has helped me understand, and help, my ds.

@Molocosh

So don't get a random, get someone who has a DBS and a childcare qualification Like Vanessa George?

Again, and I say this as someone who has Aspergers myself, that is quite extreme black and white thinking.

Have you every wondered about yourself or a relative possibly being neurodiverse?

Are you planning for him to attend nursery? Because tiring him out and stimulating him cognitively might be some help with the sleep.

I would take a 360 degree view of this. Try everything. Consider everything.

Your mum is awful - ask her if she thinks your son is to blame for the troubles in your marriage - when she says no, they're down to you and your husband, you can just raise an eyebrow at her.

Going against the grain of the thread - maybe you could try coming at this sleep training from another angle. If your ds isn't going to sleep until midnight and then he's waking early - and not showing signs of exhaustion during the day - maybe he just doesn't need that much sleep (at this point in his life). So it won't matter how many lavender baths he has, he's still going to scream if you leave him alone, and I can't get on board with "training" him to leave that nobody will come if he cries, and he just has to lie there in the dark for hours before sleep comes.

Why not do the bath, get him into his PJs and then snuggle up on the sofa with a Disney film? That way he is quietly occupied and you and your dh can at least sit together and have a cuddle even if conversation isn't possible. It might be preferable to making bedtime into a battle!