36 COVID fatalities reported today. We are on the way out of this 🌟🌟

[Jkslays]

36 reported fatalities today (weekend caveat), the lowest number since the day before lockdown was announced. 77 & 115 the last two Sundays for comparison

Mercifully, the human toll of this crisis is easing

I'm hopeful the trends will continue to improve

As reported by Professor Karol Sikora on Twitter

This is amazing news and surely our schools should be able to open as normal come September!

@TrustTheGeneGenie

But everywhere else has been quite honest with their public that lockdown measures may need to be reintroduced as cases start to rise again

France has ruled another lockdown out as the economic cost is too high.

What will they do if there's a second wave? Would they just not treat patients?

I think one of the issues is, we’ve had pandemics before but the key difference is they were contained in mostly Asia. In my opinion, this has meant two things:

1/ we expected that would happen this time so were unprepared (by we, I mean non Asian countries).

2/ Asian countries have dealt with pandemics before, so had systems in place, ready to go. Meaning that many of them managed to contain the virus, because they’ve done it before.

The only two friends I have who think their country has dealt with it well are in Thailand and Sweden. Both had very different approaches and the Swedish approach definitely wouldn’t have been popular on mumsnet 😁. My colleagues in Dublin think their government hasn’t handled it well, their prolific posts on social media tell me that. Appreciate this is just anecdotal but if we only read the British press (because not many of us read multiple languages) then we aren’t going to know what other countries citizens think.

What will they do if there's a second wave? Would they just not treat patients?

I don't know, I don't run France.

I don’t know if France built the equivalent of Nightingale hospitals and ordered a lot of extra ventilators? I’m going to assume they did something similar, as they also have socialised healthcare. I don’t know if anyone can confirm that France is also now better prepared, or not?

If we have a 2nd wave in the U.K. then we are better prepared now, than we were in March. I think sometimes people forget that the lockdown was to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed because we didn’t have capacity.

If we have a 2nd wave in the U.K. then we are better prepared now, than we were in March. I think sometimes people forget that the lockdown was to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed because we didn’t have capacity.

We still don't have the capacity. That's why the NHS has largely shut down, why waiting lists are 5 million longer, why the Nightingale hospitals never opened - because there isn't capacity, particularly staff. They built the Nightingales but didn't factor in trained ITU drs and nurses - they couldn't admit patients because they didn't have enough ITU trained nurses to run the beds.

We still don't have the capacity. That's why the NHS has largely shut down, why waiting lists are 5 million longer, why the Nightingale hospitals never opened - because there isn't capacity, particularly staff. They built the Nightingales but didn't factor in trained ITU drs and nurses - they couldn't admit patients because they didn't have enough ITU trained nurses to run the beds

I didn’t know that. I don’t work in the NHS though, just repeating what I’ve read on the BBC and Economist.

Rep of Ireland have said they won’t have another lockdown

We still don't have the capacity

We never run out of beds. Ever. I’m sorry hearts but what you’ve just said isn’t true. They did open them but there wasn’t the demand for them.

The waiting lists are so so long because the NHS shut everything down in preparation for It being totally overwhelmed. It never happened.

I know two nurses who were sent home from shift because it was empty.

Also the one in Manchester was going to be used as a ‘step down bed’ where patients would go there when they were in recovery and ready to go home. So no ICU Nurses required, but as it was it was unneeded.

I honestly think that some people are so engulfed in anxiety and fear they can only accept information if it resonates with how they are feeling.

We never run out of beds. Ever. I’m sorry hearts but what you’ve just said isn’t true. They did open them but there wasn’t the demand for them.

It is true. The one in London had 40 patients, not the 2000 it was built for. Referring hospitals were told that they had to send staff with any patient that they referred. The hospitals didn't have staff to spare so kept patients in the main hospitals, demand was starting to decrease by then anyway.

It's a fallacy to believe that we are ready and equipped to deal with a second wave. We would be in the same place, maybe slightly better if all ITU care was moved to the Nightingales and just a skeleton service run in the NHS, though the plans were for patients to be admitted to ITU from a and E and then transferred to a nightingale so sounds like both would need to be running at the same time.

The NHS was overrun in as much as beds had to be freed up from other specialties in order to care for Covid patients. They had to take wards and staff from somewhere didn't they? How could they maintain normal services without getting extra beds and staff from somewhere?

@Jkslays

Also the one in Manchester was going to be used as a ‘step down bed’ where patients would go there when they were in recovery and ready to go home. So no ICU Nurses required, but as it was it was unneeded.

I honestly think that some people are so engulfed in anxiety and fear they can only accept information if it resonates with how they are feeling.

The information I have are from people working in the NHS in London, one a senior manager. Nothing to do with anxiety.

The Nightingale in London was built as an ITU, not a step down. There's a BBC news interview where someone asks about patient privacy (because the cubicles were open on one side) and whether they would be frightened on arrival by the starkness of it and the Dr in charge explained that all patients would be unconscious and ventilated so it wasn't an issue.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

We never run out of beds. Ever. I’m sorry hearts but what you’ve just said isn’t true. They did open them but there wasn’t the demand for them.

It is true. The one in London had 40 patients, not the 2000 it was built for. Referring hospitals were told that they had to send staff with any patient that they referred. The hospitals didn't have staff to spare so kept patients in the main hospitals, demand was starting to decrease by then anyway.

It's a fallacy to believe that we are ready and equipped to deal with a second wave. We would be in the same place, maybe slightly better if all ITU care was moved to the Nightingales and just a skeleton service run in the NHS, though the plans were for patients to be admitted to ITU from a and E and then transferred to a nightingale so sounds like both would need to be running at the same time.

The NHS was overrun in as much as beds had to be freed up from other specialties in order to care for Covid patients. They had to take wards and staff from somewhere didn't they? How could they maintain normal services without getting extra beds and staff from somewhere?

Can you find one one article that collaborates any of that.

Yes they moved staff about as they tried to keep as many people in hospital as that’s where they would be best treated.

Like the article above you read something completely different to what other people have. Maybe because of your outlook on this your reading your own anxieties in to it

@HearhoovesthinkzebrasI don't want ventilated if I get it as it sounds extremely unpleasant so you can have my spot.

Jkslays

Plenty of NHS staff will corroborate it. It's been said on plenty of threads on here. Believe it or don't believe it. Hopefully there won't be a second wave to prove which of us is correct. Have you not wondered why the hospitals aren't back up and running normally if it was so unnecessary, capacity wasn't needed etc etc? Why aren't they back to normal now if staff and beds weren't needed? According to gov stats there's not many Covid patients in hospital now, apparently very little chance of catching it according to MN experts so why aren't hospitals operating normally?

[quote Mascotte]@HearhoovesthinkzebrasI don't want ventilated if I get it as it sounds extremely unpleasant so you can have my spot.[/quote]
Already signed my advanced directive. I'm not to be ventilated or resuscitated thanks.

@Hearhooves me neither. Get out there, take reasonable precautions, and live!

It seems really scary when you've not been out, even for a gung ho person like me, but once you're out it's not nearly as bad.

Why aren't they back to normal now if staff and beds weren't needed

Because people are staying away from the NHS? I’ve seen plenty of interviews with Doctors stating how worried they are because people are missing out on treatment.

People are doing this because they don’t want to catch covid in hospital and because they read the reports about the NHS and stayed away, as they didn’t want to contribute to that.

[quote Mascotte]@Hearhooves me neither. Get out there, take reasonable precautions, and live!

It seems really scary when you've not been out, even for a gung ho person like me, but once you're out it's not nearly as bad.[/quote]
No. I'm 50. Just because I don't want to be ventilated should I catch it doesn't mean that I don't care if I catch it.

I've got children who I want to be around for. I'm not about to risk catching it and getting very sick or dying.

I'll shield until I'm told not to.

🤷‍♀️I'm fifty too.

Because people are staying away from the NHS? I’ve seen plenty of interviews with Doctors stating how worried they are because people are missing out on treatment.

No, that's a and e presentations.

I've been due to have four hospital appointments during lockdown, 2 in the past week. All have been telephone consultations. At today's the Dr told me I need to be seen in person as soon as possible and he's put me on the list to have one of the first appointments once they are allowed to see patients again "hopefully within the next three months". So nothing to do with patients choosing not to be seen. That's procedural. So why?

@Mascotte

🤷‍♀️I'm fifty too.

And that's up to you.

I'm choosing not to risk my life. Same as people who choose to smoke I suppose, even though they know the risks.

I'm not that fussed. I want to throw myself into life and all it holds, enjoy things, have fun, do the things, travel, shop, culture, eat, drink, have a generally good time and ingrain they in my dc. I'm definitely more inclined to have a good time than a long time.

Different strokes, as they say 😊

@Mascotte

I'm not that fussed. I want to throw myself into life and all it holds, enjoy things, have fun, do the things, travel, shop, culture, eat, drink, have a generally good time and ingrain they in my dc. I'm definitely more inclined to have a good time than a long time.

Different strokes, as they say 😊

That's good for you.

Personally I want to be around to see my kids settle down, maybe have children. I want to be able to go on holiday but with insurance rather than without because I won't get it travelling against medical advice.

Personally I want to be around to see my kids settle down, maybe have children. I want to be able to go on holiday but with insurance rather than without because I won't get it travelling against medical advice

Same as several of my relatives - none COVID related. This isn’t just a COVID thing.

No, that's a and e presentations

I've been due to have four hospital appointments during lockdown, 2 in the past week. All have been telephone consultations. At today's the Dr told me I need to be seen in person as soon as possible and he's put me on the list to have one of the first appointments once they are allowed to see patients again "hopefully within the next three months". So nothing to do with patients choosing not to be seen. That's procedural. So why?

Wrong again. Lots of articles from doctors saying dementia and cancer diagnosis are massively down because people are not going to see GP or long waiting lists to see consultant.

Honestly, your cherry picking the things that help keep you in this miserable state of existing