Anti dementors not (second) waving but flouting

[Waleshasgonecompletelycrazy]

Welcome one and all. Bad days, good days...we're here for you all

Disappointed in the times Dementoring though, haven't they been quite balanced up to now?

Generally yes.

I really don’t think there will be another lockdown. I think the real reasons for excess deaths in early lockdown are going to produce proper scandal over the next couple of months. When it finally dawns on the lockdown enthusiasts that not all the deaths were covid-related or caused there will be anger.

This whole safe to do so thing...why can't they tell us what they class as safe? At the moment I feel like it's how long is a piece of string, they actually don't know and will just carry on dragging this out indefinitely.

The bubble thing whilst good is also so flawed. I can't have a bubble because I'm married with kids and everyone I know is part of a couple of family. Other people will not just want us in their bubble. So the fact that I'm not single and not an only child and my husband isn't an only child means I have to go longer without any interaction with someone else? The garden thing is all well and good until it's raining, I will just feel more miserable sat out in the rain.

So I'm going to break the rules, I have 2 friends and a next door neighbour who will be allowed inside my house and me in theirs. They are all socialising with others too and that's fine.

However, someone else who isn't comfortable breaking the rules could really suffer by not being allowed to see anyone properly until god knows when. That's what gets me the most, there is no end in sight to any of this.

@Teateaandmoretea

Generally yes.

I really don’t think there will be another lockdown. I think the real reasons for excess deaths in early lockdown are going to produce proper scandal over the next couple of months. When it finally dawns on the lockdown enthusiasts that not all the deaths were covid-related or caused there will be anger.

Agreed. When the dust has settled and the full impact of the lockdown starts to emerge, people will begin to see that it was a really fucking bad idea. And that basing our virus containment strategy on communist China maybe wasn’t the wisest move.

I allowed myself a little amount of optimism looking at the Scottish roadmap. Figures are reducing dramatically with new infections in the low teens and deaths nil or single digits. So I naively assumed we'd be following the phased lockdown document in the 3 week increments as no current reason to delay surely.

But no Nicola has said (after 2 days with no deaths, although there were some in the following days) that we might be able to move on to some of Phase 2 on 18/06.

We're booked to stay in England on 10/07 so again reading the phasing document and calculating the 3 week intervals, I assumed travel restrictions and tourist industry open on 09/07, but no magical date of 15/07 instead, meaning Scottish families have 3 weeks until schools open to try and squeeze in a holiday and Scottish tourism have one week less to try to get back some of their lost earnings.

Don't get me wrong, I'm delighted we at least have a date and we're going down to England regardless, but it feels like death by a thousand paper cuts, each move of a few days may not seem like much at the time but stretches the whole thing out more painfully than it needs to be.

I'd like to get rid of the whole 'happy children safe with their parents, playing, baking and learning as a family, like it should be'.

1. A significant number of children are not safer at home and normalising locking them away is dangerous for them.
2. We have never done this before, there isn't some utopia where rosy cheeked children baked with mum while dad brought home the back. We have always relied on wider society to bring up children in various ways and for living history that has involved education in schools.
3. DD is perfectly 'safe' with me, she isn't abused or neglected but she's not having enough stimulation, exercise or range of ideas that will make her thrive. The pressure of trying to make a reluctant learner complete tasks someone else is setting is affecting our relationship as the only way I've found to get her to do English is by telling her off (I've tried other ways). She believes she can't do certain things and I can't shake this belief despite evidence to the contrary. She needs to be with educators and I need to go back to being a parent. It may be physically safe but is this emotionally healthy?

Our aim should be thriving not surviving.

The other mantra I’d like to get rid of is ‘older people had it harder in the past’

You would have to be at least 77 to have any memory of the war at all. Probably 80 for this to be memorable. My dad says that this is the hardest time of his life, he was born just after WW2 and had rationing as a young child (which clearly was his mother’s problem not his!)

I am glad I found this thread. I woke up raging this morning and then read through the latest posts and felt relived that I’m not the only one totally fed up and bewildered by what has happened.
I went to pick up a prescription yesterday at our doctors (rural practice so they dispense). The queue snaked into the car park.

As I got almost to the front of the queue, a man came out and said “Right palaver, isn’t it?”
“Too right” I replied
“At least we’re still all alive” baaed the person behind me
“Yes, at least we’re all still alive” bleated some other people, nodding away.

Grrr.

Thank god for this thread, a breath of normality in the madness.

I'd like to get rid of the whole 'happy children safe with their parents, playing, baking and learning as a family, like it should be'
1. A significant number of children are not safer at home and normalising locking them away is dangerous for them
2. We have never done this before, there isn't some utopia where rosy cheeked children baked with mum while dad brought home the back

I wholeheartedly agree. We seem to be looking at decades gone by with rose tinted glasses and saying oh this is how it should be.

There are so many issues with that. Domestic abuse was rife in those times. Children were practically feral and were usually brought up by the whole street not one woman on their own. Very importantly they weren't locked up and they could play with other children. Mother's didn't have the time to continuously entertain as we are expected to do.

Equally it was entirely possible to buy or rent a nice enough house in those days on one standard wage. It's not now. We live in a cheap area as it is and we would have to buy the smallest two up two down in the roughest area to be able to afford to live on one wage.

I actually hate being a housewife and a teacher. I'm crap at it and it's making me depressed.

I had a big rant at dp last night about women's rights and how this will ensure women are chained up in the kitchen where they belong. He agreed. His life hasn't changed except now he comes home to tea on the table and he can take the car to work. His life is easier now. Mine? Yeah not so much.

I am well and truly fucking fed up. I cannot believe that women are happy with this. It's one thing to decide to be a SAHM and I tell you I've got plenty of respect for them because this is hard work, but to not be able to realise that not everyone can do it or wants to do it or can afford to do it, and shaming those who have had enough of doing it is abhorrent

Rookiemere I find it fascinating as an Irishperson to compare Scotland with Ireland on this. Yes we locked down earlier and had a slightly tougher lockdown than the UK, but the ROI is now reopening rapidly (the Irish Gov has actually speeded up the timetable), although I'm not sure our stats are better than Scotland's. The cynic in me thinks that Ireland has no choice because there's only so much economic damage we can sustain as a small independent country, whereas Scotland can have an endless lockdown subsidised by the rest of the UK.

The cynic in me thinks that Ireland has no choice because there's only so much economic damage we can sustain as a small independent country, whereas Scotland can have an endless lockdown subsidised by the rest of the UK.

The cynic in me thinks that Ireland's Sturgeon-style Dementoring stopped when they realised the EU would not be bailing them out.

Yes somewhere east I do think that all the Scottish government will be judged for is the number of deaths and its causing an unnatural cautiousness.
As the English tourist trade is opening up 11 days before Scotland, I won't be the only one going down there and with the higher infection rates, keeping Scottish options closed longer could turn out to be a counter productive move - but if numbers do go up it can be blamed on people flouting lockdown and England so win win I suppose.

Just had a strange bickering kind of argument with DH about living in a cul de sac he tok affront as I said I couldn't cope with living in one of those (thinking of the clapping, dementor type shaming and curtain twitching) but he grew up in one and took it personally

Daft. is anyone else find they are having silly arguments at the moment? Thankfully he is back at work (some days) so have a break form each other today.

Yeah the Times is usually OK, but it varies like with the others I guess

there is another one on Rishi pushing for the 2m rule being dropped as well

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/coronavirus-rishi-sunak-targets-two-metre-rule-and-calls-for-a-spending-spree-hnzmv5b9h

He told the backbench 1922 Committee of Tory MPs that 24 countries had introduced the flexibility to reduce the two-metre rule, while Sweden and Denmark had lowered it recently.

Mr Sunak also suggested that the change could have a significant impact on schools.

He urged Tory MPs to encourage people to go out and spend money when shops reopen next week, warning that as many as 3.5 million jobs could be lost in a recession.

Boris Johnson suggested earlier that the two-metre rule would be reduced soon. He suggested that England could push ahead even if Scotland rejected the measure. The reduction of the distancing rule could coincide with the reopening of pubs next month. He said that it was under “constant” review.

@Waleshasgonecompletelycrazy

I'd like to get rid of the whole 'happy children safe with their parents, playing, baking and learning as a family, like it should be'.

1. A significant number of children are not safer at home and normalising locking them away is dangerous for them.
2. We have never done this before, there isn't some utopia where rosy cheeked children baked with mum while dad brought home the back. We have always relied on wider society to bring up children in various ways and for living history that has involved education in schools.
3. DD is perfectly 'safe' with me, she isn't abused or neglected but she's not having enough stimulation, exercise or range of ideas that will make her thrive. The pressure of trying to make a reluctant learner complete tasks someone else is setting is affecting our relationship as the only way I've found to get her to do English is by telling her off (I've tried other ways). She believes she can't do certain things and I can't shake this belief despite evidence to the contrary. She needs to be with educators and I need to go back to being a parent. It may be physically safe but is this emotionally healthy?

Our aim should be thriving not surviving.

My relationship with DC has dive bombed over all this and I don't think it's repairable. I was caring lovely mama and now I'm deamon headmistress, Run ragged worker and frazzled stroppy parent. DC now go to DH for hugs. It's heartbreaking.

The problem with reducing the two-metre rule is that a large proportion of the population won't believe it is safe, so it won't make as much difference as it otherwise could, especially in schools. This is because theTories are quite clearly re-introducing it for economic reasons and they've lost so many people's trust by their cack-handed management so far. So, anyone left of centre, anyone who is risk-averse, anyone who is scared, anyone who doesn't understand risk, will just dig in their heels. In the meantime, our local market is opening on Saturday with the sort of draconian queuing rules for each individual stall that will make it a really unattractive experience. Given a choice between queuing at 6 individual stalls, and going to the supermarket where you queue once to get in, which would you choose??

So, anyone left of centre, anyone who is risk-averse, anyone who is scared, anyone who doesn't understand risk, will just dig in their heels.

Let them dig all they want.

Everyone else can just get on with life.

People who refuse to go back to work can be given unpaid leave, and eventually sacked. Including teachers.

Other than the shielding group, nobody should expect to be paid for months while not doing the job they were hired to do.

I got very down last night - all the Welsh news was the unions saying school hadn't had enough time to prepare. The guidelines seem fairly obvious to me - teach outdoors if possible, eat at desks limit interactions where possible etc.

Only school to get back to us is only offering four mornings till term end but I don't want that to disappear.

Also saw the Welsh government person on masks - who pretty much said ignore the outter layer thing and get a sock and cut up and put something in between the two layers - I saw that on goggle box months ago.

@Waleshasgonecompletelycrazy I completely agree with everything in your last post.
Those adverts on tele depicting happy family time during lockdown make me want to scream!!

The problem with reducing the two-metre rule is that a large proportion of the population won't believe it is safe

They'd need to sell it - point to the WHO guideline always being 1m and point to all the countires that only ever had 1m - say we were super cautious but as infection rates have dropped can be less cautious.

Whether they are capable of doing so - who knows.

Oh, @Bellesavage that's hard. Take heart though from the fact you e been educating yourself. I'm on my own with mine and haven't had the heart to educate him as it's such a battle, so I'm feeling guilty about that! You just can't win as a mother sometimes!

Take a day off teaching and relax? And I'll try to get on some teaching and be a good mother that way 😃

With you all the way Nihil.

They seem to believe anything bad but nothing positive. So weird.

It's true that it appears to be very easy to take over the world and make people obey you, even without an underground bunker and a white cat.

And @TrustTheGeneGenie I also agree with your post word for word.
I recognise you from other threads too. Good to have some allies!

I'd like to get rid of the whole 'happy children safe with their parents, playing, baking and learning as a family, like it should be'.

I get the distict impression many people, without children at home, think this is what is happening and I agree it's a dangerous fiction for many.