Can I shift my mindset to believe I should have more of a day than my kids?

[DisorganisedOrganiser]

Can anyone help me change my mindset.

Like many others, my DC (7 & 9) are hating this lockdown. Behaviour is not awful but really not great. They are a nightmare to motivate, need to be nagged to do anything and really should be helping me in the house a bit more. They are also so ungrateful, eg moaning that our garden is small yet we are so lucky to have one at all.

I know that if I could be more ‘in charge’ things would be easier. I have always struggled with discipline. I was a very good child and have never really understood bad behaviour. Instinctively I have never understood why kids should automatically obey me just because I am an adult. Just because someone is older does not mean they know better IMO. I know lots of parents who seem to automatically think the parents views and opinions are more important than the child’s. I think the opposite, have tried to be child led and would put children above adults in terms of needs and wants in a family (assuming the basics of food, shelter etc). I suppose what I am trying to say is I view children as equal to adults and their opinions equal or maybe even more important. I have never understood why the fact that I had children means I automatically know more.

However, I don’t think this attitude is helping me and with lockdown dragging ahead with no real end in sight I would really like to change. So how to I go from thinking we are an equal team to being the manager of the team? Given we are all stuck together for the forseeable.

I have been inspired to post by reading various threads about lockdown and behaviour but I don’t mean this as a thread about any specific threads.

Oh FFS. More of a say! Now this doesn’t even make sense .

Maybe consider yourself a family rather than a team? You are the head of the family, who sometimes has to make difficult unpopular decisions because you are the adult and know what's best for everyone.
Think about must, should, could. It may help!

'I have never understood why the fact that I had children means I automatically know more.'

It's not because you've had children it's because you've had many years more experience of life.

If you started a new job as a trainee would you assume that you had the same level of expertise as someone who was fully qualified and had been doing it for 30 years? Would you assume your opinion of what should happen was equal to theirs? No. Because that would be madness.

They don't know as much as you because they are children. They NEED you to be in charge because you know best. That's why have a society where children live with adults! Otherwise we could just set them up in a flat when they're 5 and let them sort themselves out from there on.

The fact that you don't know this already is a concern tbh!

Why don't you ask one of the children what adults are in charge and see if they can explain it to you?

Instinctively I have never understood why kids should automatically obey me just because I am an adult.

They should not obey you just because you're an adult, but because you're an adult who loves and cares about their wellbeing, and eventually because you have a mutual respect for eachother that you have built up over time as they learn to trust the decisions you make. When the decisions you make are bad, arbitrary, cruel etc, they will not build up this respect and any obedience would be out of fear or desperation to please. When the decisions you make ultimately help them flourish and create a better environment for the family, even if they seem annoying at the time, the hope is that children will follow your instructions for the right reasons . e.g. most children don't enjoy being told it's bedtime but when they're old enough they usually understand that you do have their best interests at heart.

Just because someone is older does not mean they know better IMO True in theory, but unless there is something pretty wrong with you, an adult parent should really know better than a 7 year old! Children need adult direction, they flourish with adult direction. Their brains and their emotions won't be fully developed for years to come so it is actually unfair on them to let them make too many decisions.

Other than housework/tidying (which few kids want to do willingly) what sort of things do you find yourself nagging them to do?

I find behaviour management really difficult for exactly the same reasons you said.

But I'm a teacher so I have to do it even though I'm not a natural at it. You're right, your children are valuable and they are perfectly entitled to have their own opinions and attitudes. But...

-imagine you're at work during a tough situation and your boss isn't leading your team. It'd be frustrating, you'd want them to take the lead. Same thing for your kids.

• kids really do need boundaries

• you're old and have more experience and can see a bigger picture that they just can't

• where what the kids "want" is different to what they "need", always put needs before wants.

• give them choices "it's your choice, you do your homework now or have a time out" it makes it less personal and puts the ball in their court.

What were they like pre-lockdown OP? Why were you a “ very good child”?

Everyone is struggling with behaviour in the lockdown so make sure your expectations are realistic. Kids are bored and they pick up on the tension and situation - you can’t make them grateful for what they have.

On the other hand if you tried setting a few more boundaries would that give them more of a framework for their day? We have a board and each has school work, chores and ideas for activities as well as ‘mummy’ time when I’ll play a game and go for a walk.

They can choose when they do it but have to do all the work and chores before they have screen time. Gives choice but not too much choice as a PP said.

I'm similar op. First thing to do is decide what you want/expect from your children. Work from there.

It's fine to have different ideas of what they should do from other people but you need to be clear what your lines are and draw them.

I'm prepared to bet there are things they are not allowed to do that you're very strict on though, you just don't notice yourself doing it. Do they brush their teeth? Wash their hands after going to the loo?

OP I know exactly where you're coming from, I struggle with this too.

A couple of things have helped. Janet Lansbury has a great website and podcast where she explains a lot about boundaries but in a way which fits with my philosophy. It's not hierarchical or what I say goes, it's respectful of the child/ren but puts other people (especially you) in the picture as important as well.

Secondly reframing a bit. I am in charge of my children because I am the person who is responsible for them. They are not yet old enough to be responsible for themselves, because they don't have the maturity or life experience or big picture thinking. Because I'm responsible, sometimes I have to overrule them because it's my job to keep them relatively healthy and safe etc. So that might mean noticing that when they have too much screen time, it makes them cranky and annoyed and recognising that they can't yet self regulate and they need me to step in and be that limit for them. That it's ultimately a loving and supportive and necessary thing to do, not just me being a boring old sensible grown up or ruining their fun or making rules up just for the sake of it.

Wow so many replies - all very helpful.

Diversduvet, that is a good idea actually. I would still find it hard but it is a simple change I could make.

Nuff, that all makes sense. If I ask them who is in charge they say the prime minister . I know it is about life experience and the work example does help. What I find hard is that I’m sure we can all think of loads of people who are more experienced than us but still seem to screw everything up. At work or in daily life!

Beep, I think it is Th e fact that I have always found punishments really arbitrary. So eg I might say do your homework then you can get screen time. But why? Or do this then we can go in the paddling pool. It just seems so fake to me. I think I still have that really teenagerish thought that they didn’t ask to be born so why should they be grateful for stuff.

coffee, as a teacher do you just fake it ‘til you make it? Interestingly I am not great with bosses. I tow the line almost all of the time but I do also hate being managed. I have a job where we are expected to challenge hierarchies and authority. I work in a team and am happiest when we just get on with it rather than bosses who often don’t have a clue interfering with things which we then have to fix afterwards. I work in a big organisation but with my immediate managers things are usually a discussion rather than being told what to do.

In terms of what I have to nag them to do. Lots of stuff but the main things are:-

Doing their teeth in the morning now we are all stuck at home

Home learning - tricky as the stuff my 7 year old is set is so incredibly boring that I can’t blame her.

Exercise - this is non-negotiable and they know this but they have to be dragged through it.

Get off screens - especially YouTube. Before anyone asks, yes I could ban it but these are not normal times and life is absolutely shit for them so want them to have some way to zone out.

Honestly anything that is not YouTube, snacks or making a mess everywhere or paddling pool needs nagging.

Greenleaves, honestly they weren’t great. Lockdown has just made it worse. They do loads of activities usually so are missing them. However getting them to practise any of them is very hard .

It that’s precisely why children need adults to set boundaries, to help them understand the responsibilities they have and that with rights comes responsibility. In my house school work before screen time is about do you work before your time is your own.

I’d hope you do know more and know better than your kids. Mine are 9 and 7 too and seriously I have 40 years more experience of being alive, I’ve made mistakes, got an education, had long term relationships. It doesn’t mean I get my own way, or that I don’t listen to my kids but we don’t have an equal say.

Start thinking about the kind of boundaries you want to set and go from there.

Greenleaves, no sinister reason for me being good. I was just intrinsically good. I wasn’t an angel but it just always seemed easier to make the right choice than the wrong one. I worked hard because I knew I had to if I wanted to do well. I think I was just intrinsically good. Eg my brother and I barely fought as it was more fun to play together. This is NOT a stealth boast. It has really harmed me as a parent as I just cannot easily see why a child would make the wrong choice when the right choice is available. I wish so much I had been worse.

Merdedes, I have tried a timetable and we have a loose one but they just don’t want to do ANYTHING. So eg we will do schoolwork for 30 mins but actually DD2 only does 5 mins work because the rest of the time is her saying she can’t or won’t do it. The only screentime they really want is really irritating prank style videos on YouTube. Which just gives me the rage. If I take it away then I get no peace as they fight constantly then or excitedly scream in the garden so I have to bring them in.

Plantsitter, I am strict on very few things. They do their teeth of course yes but they have to be frog marched to the bathroom. Exercise is non negotiable as it is necessary for health. But the moaning. Even with something like Go Noodle which they actually like they still moan.

Your post is great thank you Bertie.

Set some nonnegotiables . Like hygiene, amount of school work , behaviour .

Then you will have things that can be discussed, but ultimately you have the final say like if a movie is appropriate, or a youtube channel etc.

Then the basics(what they wear, what/how they play, food etc) that they largely have the most input and choices over, with guidance only if necessary. For example reminding them it will rain later, or that jeans might be a bit hot in 30 degrees.

They're not your copilots, they're learners that need rules,boundaries,guidance and to be shown how things work.

Jellycats (brilliant username) I like the idea that your time is your own.

I think I am struggling the most with the fact that there are so many things they could do with this time but I can’t get them to do it. Or I can but I have to nag.

Do I just need to accept that nothing will happen without constant nagging? It is so draining and it is morning until night. Even now DD2 is refusing to go to sleep but doesn’t want me to leave the room so I am stuck in here or she will cry. The house is a shit tip and I want to tidy up.

I was never like this. I came in from school, had a snack then started my homework. It needed doing so I did it .

I don’t even know how I can take YouTube or screens away now as everything is bloody online learning and most of DD1’s school stuff appears to be YouTube links!

Would it help to start thinking that children need boundaries, consistency and a leader to feel safe; to feel happy; to feel loved??

And that by not giving them this, you are failing them??

Imagine you were wandering in a pitch black dreamscape with no horizon, nothing behind you and no way of knowing if your next step was off a cliff?? Then change that and put a fence around it. You bump into the fence and feel secure. You go back the next day, fence is still there, phew! A few weeks later, fence has gone - argh!!!!

There's a reason kids LOVE repetition from when they are babies. It makes them feel really good to know what is about to happen - and then it happens. Good. Dad is still hiding behind that curtain. Mum is still going to make a fake disgusted if I pretend to fart, Mum is still going to shout at me if I don't put my shit away.

That's how I remind myself to keep pushing on when I just cba to go over stuff again and again and it would be a damn sight easier to do it myself. I just remember that if I back down, I've just removed the fence...

Have you tried rewards for doing the stuff but only if it's done without the moaning??? Mind get 1 point for the chore - activity but up to 3 for a good attitude.

Mine have a ticklist of stuff to do on a school day. It's not military - more 30 mins read/30 mins maths book/put clean laundry away etc. Once they done all the stuff properly, they get to do whatever they want.

They like knowing what's expected of them, but also like the flexibility of choosing which tasks to do next.

'I’m sure we can all think of loads of people who are more experienced than us but still seem to screw everything up'

Sure. And you will screw up. You absolutely, definitely will. There is no way you're going to get through parenting two children without ever making a mistake, but that's a cross that you have to bear as an adult and as a parent. You've got to put your big girl knickers on!

It's not good or kind to put undue responsibility onto children. You're right that they didn't ask to be born, so you can't ask them to parent themselves. You made them, you do it. You take responsibility. You make the decisions. You live with the consequences if you make a mistake. They will thank you for it in the long term (when they have an education and their teeth haven't rotted away and they're not clinically obese etc etc).

When I trained to be a teacher I really had to grapple with the idea of discipline.

It was when I learned that children prefer adults to be in charge it made it easier. They feel happier and more secure when they are told that black is black and I was trying to impose my adult mindset that wanted flexibility onto children who viewed things differently.

(like you I was a naturally well behaved child who didn't need much disciple).

YouTube has been banned in our house as I couldn’t take it any more. We deleted the apps from the TV and the kids have their own log in on the laptop which limits the sites they are allowed on.

It was painful but worth it!

And before I get accused of being smug - they watch any amount of shit on Netflix...

I love the learners not copilots idea Princess!

I think a major problem we have is that they used to do their homework while in waiting rooms for activities, swimming lessons etc. Great in pre-lockdown life. But it means we have no routine of doing work at home as they didn’t do that.

So if they don’t do their work then no screen time? Seems so simple. All schoolwork DD1 is set is optional. Do I just pick some non-negotiables myself then?

I am finding it hard as I am just so disappointed in their fighting, their ungratefulness, mess in the house, and frankly lack of desire to do anything but the bare minimum. Feel I have totally failed and have no idea how to motivate them.

I feel like I run around like a blue arsed fly getting more and more annoyed all day while they do nothing. Even then I cannot get anything done. I have had to learn loads of new work skills during this lockdown and have taken up running again. They have no desire to better themselves at all it seems.

In essence my problem is that when they get their free time they want to watch really inappropriate stuff on YouTube. Not dangerous or anything, just those annoying ‘influencer’ type people who show prank videos and things. So I potentially need to ban it which I don’t feel I can do in a lockdown as that is not fair and also then means I have nothing to reward them with.

Fusion, actually I haven’t done anything about rewarding good attitude so that might be worth a go. Nuffsaid, absolutely I agree which is why I started this post.

zoemum that is really interesting. I did a very small bit of volunteering teaching children’s sports and was so excited to start. I was stunned and so disappointed that they responded really badly to cheery smiley me (I am experienced in teaching adults as part of my job) and seemed to want me to be the strict teacher that they could moan about but actually would do the exercises. Maybe kids just like to moan?!

I like the tick list idea Bernadette. Are you very strict on it being done properly? As in I could ask them to do half an hour of work but they will actually only do 5 minutes worth of quality work.

I might say do your homework then you can get screen time. But why? Or do this then we can go in the paddling pool. It just seems so fake to me

I'm not sure I understand. This is real life. If you don't do your job, you don't get paid. If you don't clean your house, you live in filth, etc.

I'm afraid listening to the moaning is part of the job of being a parent. The trick is to not let it get to you. You love them and they love you, but you all are not friends or peers.

I do also hate being managed
That's interesting.

They need to use YouTube for school and sports. Are you saying you can limit what Youtube channels they look at though? Thy at would be great. I’ve tried blocking channels but it had no effect. There are so many awful ones too that I think it would be better to have an allowed list rather than a blocked one.

Yeah, don’t know why I hate it but it gives me the rage. I deliberately worked my way up to have a fairly autonomous job and so enjoy that I get to challenge management regularly and get paid to do so - would be failing at my job if I didn’t.

I do understand I am prepping them for real life but I think deep down I don’t have the right to tell them what to do. I don’t know how to explain it but it feels as if it is not real if it is just me making a rule. Not sure if anyone understands?

Hi OP wasn’t suggesting it was a stealth boast - more really on what were your parents like? Why and what you think being a very good child means - that’s what intrigued me.