Can I shift my mindset to believe I should have more of a day than my kids?

[DisorganisedOrganiser]

Can anyone help me change my mindset.

Like many others, my DC (7 & 9) are hating this lockdown. Behaviour is not awful but really not great. They are a nightmare to motivate, need to be nagged to do anything and really should be helping me in the house a bit more. They are also so ungrateful, eg moaning that our garden is small yet we are so lucky to have one at all.

I know that if I could be more ‘in charge’ things would be easier. I have always struggled with discipline. I was a very good child and have never really understood bad behaviour. Instinctively I have never understood why kids should automatically obey me just because I am an adult. Just because someone is older does not mean they know better IMO. I know lots of parents who seem to automatically think the parents views and opinions are more important than the child’s. I think the opposite, have tried to be child led and would put children above adults in terms of needs and wants in a family (assuming the basics of food, shelter etc). I suppose what I am trying to say is I view children as equal to adults and their opinions equal or maybe even more important. I have never understood why the fact that I had children means I automatically know more.

However, I don’t think this attitude is helping me and with lockdown dragging ahead with no real end in sight I would really like to change. So how to I go from thinking we are an equal team to being the manager of the team? Given we are all stuck together for the forseeable.

I have been inspired to post by reading various threads about lockdown and behaviour but I don’t mean this as a thread about any specific threads.

It doesn't sound much like you have enjoyable time together. Movie night is with dad, you do crafts and baking which you don't enjoy (and they'll be able to tell that).

You constantly seem to talk about "getting them to do X so I can get on with Y".

This is a great thread, thanks for posting! Not RTFT but looking forward to taking notes.

A chore schedule has helped my DCs, they’ve always grumbled about doing chores and keeping things even (eg “but I did it last time” type whinges) but having it all worked out on a timetable so that both of them have exactly the same jobs over the fortnight has helped and they’ve not complained at all really, we started with a very simple one (one job per day) for a couple of weeks at the start of lockdown, then added more so they now have 3 jobs a day, most very quick like opening windows in the morning and then things like cleaning the back step (gets grubby when they’re trekking in and out of the garden).

I understand what you mean about being a very compliant child, mine was more about academic stuff and being very passive etc but my parents didn’t do much housework at all and I didn’t learn this stuff, so it’s important to me that they learn it now (they are both autistic like me and there are some things they might struggle with as adults so the more I can teach them now the better).

Lockdown has been hard for all of us. Both DD1 and I get anxious about too many demands on us, it does cause clashes particularly about schoolwork - this is a very tough time for everyone and adjusting to “obeying” parents instead of also having teacher input is hard. But having the chart seems to help as it’s the chart telling her not me IYSWIM.

It’s ok to have arbitrary-seeming rules I think if it helps give boundaries that kids need. I do get what you mean though.

Sorry I’ve probably made no sense I’m in a waffly mood!

That makes a lot of sense LaneBoy.

Is anyone seriously having enjoyable time with their kids 11 weeks into lockdown ? My two are super sociable and miss their friends and school so much. My 9 year old wants her friends, not her mum.. We are all sick of the sight of each other. All my (honest) friends say the same and families have absolutely had enough of each other. Most are working so need their kids to do something so they can get on with their work.

I am not aiming for enjoyable time, I’m aiming for survival. The whole ‘slower pace of life, enjoying time together’ is ok for a few weeks but not for ever. We could have weeks and months more of this. I spend most of my time going round the house picking up after people then it’s another meal time. And repeat. It’s like having a baby and a toddler in the house again and I am not good at that stage.

I will check out Janet Lansbury, it was suggested before and looks good.

What sort of enjoyable time do people actually have in these shitty times? Real enjoyment, not fake.

Also you are NOT a failure. You are recognising things you’ve not done so well, and you’re asking and taking on board advice. I did a parenting course recently and they said don’t try and be a perfect parent all the time, if you can be a decent parent 60% of the time you’re doing well.

Whatever you decide to do it’s most important that DH is on board too and you can present a united front with expectations/routine. I find things hardest to keep up with when DH’s mood slips too far (we both have MH struggles) and he doesn’t join in with the motivating stuff anymore, it’s much harder to keep it up on my own.

Really random non-parenting related suggestion but do you keep a journal? You’ve done a lot of introspection on this thread as you pick apart what you’re struggling with and what it stems from, so maybe it would be good to keep a record and help you be kind to yourself. It’s amazing how often I have a little “breakthrough” just from writing about my day.

TBH OP we are not having much enjoyable time at all now. I’ve got so caught up in DD1’s school work (she really struggles with processing issues and is already behind and then got further behind...) and it’s like I’ve forgotten even more than before how to have fun. It happens in unexpected moments but even a picnic feels like a big occasion at the moment. I don’t think that’s normal but before lockdown we were treading water anyway so we really aren’t the best example 🙈 I often feel like I don’t know how to relax as a family. I am not making enough time to relax alone either (drawing, reading etc) - it was much easier when I had reasons to go out like set times for yoga classes.

OP you are too hard on yourself, seriously. If they read and draw, that's pretty amazing. Doing exercise video, is also brilliant.

Your kids mope and moan, fine, let them. I'm sure they're amazing in other ways and maybe lockdown really doesn't suit their personalities.

Do they ever play together? Can you ask them to write letters to their relatives? Put on a show for you and your husband? Do they play any instruments?

'Plus at 7 and 9 I surely shouldn’t have to be doing crafts etc with them for hours?'

They should be able to entertain themselves for periods of time, yes. They can't because you have not allowed them to develop that skill.

But you do also need to properly engage with them and do something together.

It doesn't have to be craft and it doesn't have to be for hours, but the idea that they're 7 and 9 and therefore don't need their mum to engage with them anymore is terribly sad!

Currently, you're doing two short activities a week with them (craft and baking) whilst silently seething about the mess. Does that scream good mother-daughter relationship to you? You need to work on actually enjoying them. They'll pick up on the fact that you don't like them.

I agree with pp about a parenting course. You're treating them like adults, not understanding why they aren't good all the time, being frustrated because they don't want to 'better themselves' (7 and 9 FFS?!?!), wanting them to make the rules and be in charge of their own lives. It's too much. I'm not surprised they're unhappy tbh.

You are sick of the sight of your children?

How is baking short? It takes 10 mins or so while we look through and decide on the recipe, at least 20 mins getting all the stuff out as they are so slow. 30 mins or so actually doing it if not more as this is time for fighting over who does what bit and then separating them. Then the stuff gets baked. Then we do it all over again with eg if a cake, icing it. I don’t count that as short.

Crafts take bloody hours too. Not trying to be stroppy and do agree with the rest of your post.

No we don’t have a great relationship at the moment. I am so sick of being treated like a slave despite me asking them to help and them having no interest in the stuff either the school sends (except art) or that I find for themselves. It is hard to then find the enthusiasm to do ‘fun’ stuff which is clearly not fun so I have to fake it.

One plays a musical instrument. She has zoom lessons but does not practice in between.

I must have a skewed perspective then because I am on the parent group for their activities and what I see is loads of photos and work uploaded by other children who are clearly using this time to get better at the sport. If I had no work or housework or responsibilities then I could do anything during this time, learn a language, anything. The possibilities are almost endless.

Oh come on, of course I love them and don’t hate the sight of them all the time. It’s a figure of speech. But yes, we have all spent far too much time together. It is a fairly common complaint both on threads on here, on social media and with my own friends. Everyone is DONE.

I don't do crafts. I bake grudgingly on occasion. 10 yr old doesn't want to spend much time with us cos we don't speak fort nite. I quite often have to tell dd to leave me alone at lunch time cos i want some peace. She's ok.with that.

The walks.are nice . All 4 of us chat as we do it. I never get to do that. I'm a more chilled person though cos I'm not out the house 12 hours a day and juggling it all.

Ok, two medium length activities. Is that better? Four of five hours a week? And you hate it. That's clear. And they will know that.

The time you spend enjoying them is zero and that's really sad. It's for you to fix not them. It is hard. Particularly at the moment.

In all honesty though, is this a lockdown problem? Or a pre-existing problem that lockdown has revealed? Did you spend time doing stuff before? Or did you use school, friends and activities to cover the fact that you don't like your children? Now those have been removed you're having to face up to it, but it doesn't seem like lockdown caused these problems.

Re. the online photos; people post up the highlights, they don't post their kids moaning about brushing their teeth or making a mess! Also, you've already said your kids don't like the activities! Perhaps these kids actually enjoy the activities and haven't been forced into it by their parents.

FFS I do like them. Just not at the moment when they are behaving like entitled brats.

As an example one of the things I love about my oldest is she is fiercely independent. Almost to a fault. If she can do it herself she will. She won’t ask for help unless she has to. She loves her friends and wants so desperately to be 10 and into double figures . She can be lovely to her little sister and include her even when she annoys her. But with lockdown all her independence is gone. Her friends are gone. Zoom calls are shit so she has lost interest in them. Her independence sadly doesn’t seem to have translated to doing any housework independently. Plus she spends so much time with her little sister now that they bicker all the time. So this is not exactly bringing anyone’s hold qualities to the fore.

Ok, so what did you like doing with them pre-lockdown? What were the activities you enjoyed together?

The thing I liked most was that every weekend we went to a local cafe. Just me and them. Because of the way their sport classes worked I sat with one then the other. So we would have lunch just me and one child (then swap), chat, plan things. Relaxing because no bickering, no cooking and cleaning. Sometimes they coloured etc, sometimes they read, sometimes we would plan what we wanted to do on holiday, that sort of thing. It was proper one-on-one time with them.

Other stuff, going out for a walk used to be good but I think that has well and truly lost it’s novelty.

They like the library. Again, shut.

I will have a think of fun things to do with them.

Also love playdates with other parents -I know, not the done thing on MN! The kids can play together, parents can chat, everybody’s happy.

That sounds lovely. One on one time might be a good way to go actually, divide and conquer! Maybe over the weekend get DH to take one and you take the other and then switch. You could maybe do a picnic or walk to a cafe/bakery and get a takeaway pastry or something like that?

You could spend some time on Amazon and get some new books. Maybe you could read to them? Or read a chapter each. Do you have a favourite childhood book that you haven't introduced them to yet?

You could create an 'after lockdown' jar and talk about the things you'd like to do, write them down and put them in the jar.

You do need to get firm and put boundaries in place, but I also think you'll find an improvement in their motivation and attitude if you can have fun with them.

Playdates are great, but that doesn't count as doing something WITH them. That's palming them off to their friends while you talk to someone else.

Absolutely essential for everyone's sanity of course, but not quality mother- daughter time.

*They are years 2 and 4. They like horrible histories and operation ouch already. Honestly though I have shown them so much educational stuff and they refuse to watch it. So many museums and stuff have put this amazing content out and they don’t care at all. I can’t even get them to watch Newsround which I was hoping would give them some perspective.

Doryhunky what made me start this thread is I am so annoyed and becoming resentful. I feel that since lockdown I am basically their slave. I am so so annoyed that all this learning and fun stuff and opportunity to get better at dance, exercise, absolutely ANYTHING is there for them. They choose to moan and complain and bicker and watch shit.*

It sounds like you are projecting your own adult ideals and expectations onto them OP. YOU think they are wasting their time and doing something less valuable because it's not what YOU consider important or enriching etc. But actually, they have their own reasons for choosing to watch these YouTube videos (fitting in with friends, tuning out to relax, developing ideas about themselves and their likes/dislikes/who they do/don't want to become).

It's interesting you say you were a good child. That didn't come from nowhere, your mother (and father) instilled that in you. What less obvious and less tangible sanctions/rewards existed when you were growing up?

As a teacher, I haven't met many children that have an intrinsic motivation to always do the right thing, and as learners, they need almost constant reminding of what the 'right' thing is. They do like to please the adults (and other children) around them. So set your boundaries and reward them (proportionately) when they keep within them.

They are still young, let them be themselves. When you have firmer boundaries in place and the 'need to do' stuff is taking up less brain space you may find you have more time for 'fun stuff'. At that point, be enthusiastic about your interests and share your ideas and opinions with them and they will respond.

I just always remember seeing other kids be naughty and thinking why bother as it was easier to do the right thing than the wrong thing. If you have a choice why not do the right thing?

I was exactly like this too. But I needed to know what I was meant do be doing and then I'd gladly do it. But I needed guidance, rules, discipline, routine (which I appreciate has gone out of the window in lockdown) etc etc.

As an aside, I sometimes think choice and autonomy are like matches: potentially dangerous in the hands of children.

There's a book called "How to talk so kids will listen and how to listen so kids will talk" by Adele Faber.

I have read the edition for younger children (same title but with "Little Kids" and by Joanna Faber) and found it very helpful indeed.

So it could be worth a read. I think there's one for teens too.

Sorry have caught up with the thread and seen your responses.

Yes lockdown is shit. As you say, many of the 'back up plans' and activities that might work say over a 6 week summer holiday have lost their usefulness. I am at the end of my tether with a 3 and 1 year old and have exhausted my toolbox of tricks built up over many years as an early years teacher.

So if this is to be the 'new normal' you need a new plan. Start small. What one thing can you change today and implement over the next week? Build up from there.

What are your interests/passions? If you can show genuine enthusiasm for something I think you can build quality family time from there.

Don't be hard on yourself. You are doing the right thing by reflecting and trying to make changes.

I was a good child, but have been a teacher for over 20 years, so have had plenty of opportunity to reflect on behaviour and discipline, and I also have a 12yo and a 14yo.

My principles in terms of discipline are 1) focus on the outcome you want, rather than reacting instinctively or emotionally to behaviour 2) Don't make rules just for the sake of it and 3) Pick your battles.

I'm not authoritarian or confrontational by nature, but I'm afraid I've got no time for the view that a parent telling their child what to do is somehow 'fake', or that there is no difference between the level of authority or autonomy of an adult compared to a child. Children's safety, development, welfare, and ability to interact with other human beings depends on being told what to do from an early age.

It sounds like you’re all used structure and function well when things are more structured.
Sit down with your dcs and come up with a timetable for next week. Even put in some “do not disturb” time for yourself.
Include schoolwork and some formal learning as well as things like documentaries and things they’d like to do.

The pastry idea is brilliant NuffSaid .

I have thought many times about an ‘after lockdown’ jar but I really don’t think we are at that stage. Of course I desperately hope I am wrong but it looks as if social distancing will be around for ages. So ‘normal’ is very far off. I know they would put in things like going to a trampoline park (which actually I love, so much fun), going out for cake, cinema, etc. I don’t know, these things could be months if not years away.

For those who asked, I have racked my brains for why I was good. I really don’t know. I have asked both parents who very helpfully don’t know either . My mum said she always thought of us as a team working together and I was quite happy with that. I used to see people arguing with their siblings and then my brother and I would discuss it and agree we didn’t understand that as it was easier and more fun to play. We bickered sometimes of course but really not much. I very clearly remember I thought that it was much easier to be nice to people because then you got along, had fun together and if you didn’t do this you would upset people and have less fun. I was fairly driven in that I would want to be better at stuff so would work at it. Honestly this has NOT helped me at all as a parent and I desperately wish I had been more badly behaved as a child. I have no frame of reference.

Thanks for so many useful posts. I definitely do need to stop thinking of my own discipline as arbitrary. This goes against all my instincts but I think my instincts are wrong!

I have that How to Talk book. Thank you so much for the suggestion but I have never managed to find it useful. I don’t know if I am doing the wrong thing... I even went through a phase of doing the exercises and using the scripts word for word and nothing changed.

I do actually love Harry Potter. I am reading the books with DD1 at the moment. DD2 is not such a fan of reading the books but also loves it so maybe we could go for a Harry Potter theme next week?

Really appreciate all the posts.