Can I shift my mindset to believe I should have more of a day than my kids?

[DisorganisedOrganiser]

Can anyone help me change my mindset.

Like many others, my DC (7 & 9) are hating this lockdown. Behaviour is not awful but really not great. They are a nightmare to motivate, need to be nagged to do anything and really should be helping me in the house a bit more. They are also so ungrateful, eg moaning that our garden is small yet we are so lucky to have one at all.

I know that if I could be more ‘in charge’ things would be easier. I have always struggled with discipline. I was a very good child and have never really understood bad behaviour. Instinctively I have never understood why kids should automatically obey me just because I am an adult. Just because someone is older does not mean they know better IMO. I know lots of parents who seem to automatically think the parents views and opinions are more important than the child’s. I think the opposite, have tried to be child led and would put children above adults in terms of needs and wants in a family (assuming the basics of food, shelter etc). I suppose what I am trying to say is I view children as equal to adults and their opinions equal or maybe even more important. I have never understood why the fact that I had children means I automatically know more.

However, I don’t think this attitude is helping me and with lockdown dragging ahead with no real end in sight I would really like to change. So how to I go from thinking we are an equal team to being the manager of the team? Given we are all stuck together for the forseeable.

I have been inspired to post by reading various threads about lockdown and behaviour but I don’t mean this as a thread about any specific threads.

I don't think the main problem is your parenting, I think the main problem is lockdown. Lockdown is shit. It's really fucking hard to parent in lockdown.

Give yourself a break, OP. Talk to DH about it. Try and brainstorm together to find ideas about how you could make things work better for everyone atm. Keep it simple and achievable. And don't beat yourself up for not being perfect.

Do they know how to clean? Not what you think they should do or know, but do they actually know? Where everything goes,what is considered clean etc?

If the answer is yes, give them a time limit and a warning. Something like "I'm doing the bathroom right now and when I'm done I'm coming to hoover your bedrooms. Anything on the floor will go in the bin or hoovered up". Then give them warning throughout. You have 20 minutes left, 10 minutes, 5 minutes, make sure nothing you really love is on the floor. Then go in and if they haven't done it, follow through. You'll only have to do it once.

Or give them a choice you can tidy your room or the livingroom/wipe the kitchen counters/wipe the floors/fold laundry etc.

Massive praise for whatever they do good and no criticism for the stuff done wrong or doing it yourself.

Once they're done let them choose one home learning task that they WILL do. Once they're done, surprise it's a half day.. go and play now.

Baby steps ,for you and them. All three of you need training and time to adjust to the new rules.

Make a list tonight of things you'd like to change. Halve it. Then pick the most essential ones for their well being, yours and their future as well adjusted,decent adults and stick to those and get behind them.

After a week or two add two more from the list.

Remember you are the driver.

Ok.

So have Friday as your cleaning day and Weekends as everyones downtime. But then get cracking on stuff Monday to Thursday.

Whatever works for you.

Thanks everyone. They know bits of how to clean but I do need to give them clearer directions and show them as you suggest.

Lockdown absolutely is fucking shit AnotherEmma. If I ever actually see DH for more than 10 minutes without a child around we will try to make a plan.

Ok so the top two things on my list are interlinked:-

Adequate amount of home learning - an hour a day of maths / English / appropriate school stuff then at least half an hour of something vaguely educational.
Less time staring at a phone watching shit.

Your kids have you very well trained!

One stand out item - You said upthread that if you don't stay with your daughter until she's asleep, she will cry. Then later that you don't get your evening. Kids don't care that you don't get your evening! Try the sleep charity in getting you support in teaching her the basic life skill of falling asleep. Then you have an evening.

Part of the reason we make kids do the stuff they need to do before they do the stuff they want to do is to reduce the need to nag. In our house we watch telly 7 - 7:30. But if you haven't brushed your teeth and got pyjamas on, you miss the start of the show. No nagging or shouting, occasional complaints from the 6 year old who can be outpaced by a sloth, but it is routine, so we don't need to expend any energy. Loads of people were struggling in early lockdown because the routines went out of the window, plus kids are left to their own devices while parents WFH.

So basically, set a few expectations, and follow through on them. Let the kids have control over a limited amount of stuff. There may be kickback on this as they aren't used to it, but if you and DH are both consistent they will get used to it.

If I want them to clean their rooms, I’ll make it a race. I tell them exactly what I want and then say I’ll race them cleaning their bathroom. They know what “mum tidy” means and that if they want to do their own thing their rooms need to be mum tidy.

My kids do what I tell them because:
-I made them

• I keep.a roof over their heads
• they have it a lot better than other kids
• we work our arses off to give them a nice life, so ingratitude gets short shrift
• both working full time has meant running a tight ship forever. Everyone has a role to play.

-I don't make empty threats

• complaints about the house being too small are met with a shrugs and an.invitation to choose a better career them selves
• they don't know any different

Great .. if you're happy with an hour that's fine. Try and break it up into several lessons.

For educational stuff how about horrible histories,videos about the topic they're covering, something from the education pack on minecraft if they're into gaming, David Attenborough documentaries etc? Might be worth it having a look at a Reading Eggs account(no idea about the cost) or look at resources on twinkl which I think it is free at the moment to sign up to. The younger one could have a go at the games on phonics play , again free access during lockdown I believe.

What year groups are they in? Or what topic are they covering? I'll see if I can come up with some fun stuff for them.

If you don’t fix this now you will become resentful and that will be far worse for your children.

There's a really helpful, thoughtful book called Boundaries with Kids by Henry Cloud and John Townsend. It's on Amazon. Massively helped me to see why it's so important for children to feel confident that there's an adult in charge, and gave me a framework for only using 'natural' consequences when they're not doing what they are meant to do.

Thank you so much for so many helpful replies. That book sounds good missy, I will have a look.

My kids do have me well trained, yes .

They are years 2 and 4. They like horrible histories and operation ouch already. Honestly though I have shown them so much educational stuff and they refuse to watch it. So many museums and stuff have put this amazing content out and they don’t care at all. I can’t even get them to watch Newsround which I was hoping would give them some perspective.

Doryhunky what made me start this thread is I am so annoyed and becoming resentful. I feel that since lockdown I am basically their slave. I am so so annoyed that all this learning and fun stuff and opportunity to get better at dance, exercise, absolutely ANYTHING is there for them. They choose to moan and complain and bicker and watch shit.

Really helpful biglittlemedium

Op I think you may be over-thinking this and simply lacking in confidence in your own parenting skills. I wouldn't stress too much about strategies and rules, but your relationship with your DC. Parenting books seem scared to use the word "love" but basically that is what lies at the crux of it all. And proper love of course means giving your children what they need and not necessarily what they want (ie equipping them with the essential skills they need to fulfill their potential and be "successful" adults once they leave home).

So can you reframe how you look at "managing" or "discipling" them in your mind, and think of it instead as "teaching" "guiding" "modelling"?

And you can do it in several ways (i) first and foremost - walking the walk modelling good behaviour (ii) discussing and getting them to come up with solutions to problematic behaviour with you as back up (iii) with humour and making it fun (as much as humanly possible anyway) and when all those strategies have failed (having sorted your parenting priorities clearly in your mind and picked your battles) (iv) following it up with discipline like turning off the wi-fi.

I could be talking through my hat mind you as I only have one child and I am not a hugely experienced parent. And I do doubt myself a lot, so can identify with you second guessing yourself because I do the same. But at the same time I do think children basically want to be loved and feel secure - part of a team - being "led/guided" gently along towards clear objectives and expectations, with fun along the way. All a lot easier to write down than carry out in practice of course.

So to take your example of why should they do homework before watching videos - it's not about you arbitrarily imposing a good habit on them for no reason , it's because you know that it will stand them in good stead for their future life if they can develop inner self-discipline/ self-control etc because that is what so often lies at the heart of living a successful and fulfilling life for them. DC are often impulsive and they don't have the insight to defer instant gratification and don't understand the long term consequences of constantly putting off study/exercise. So it's our job to teach them that. Maybe that is a very old-fashioned view now though!

In summary: you CAN have more of a say than them, because ultimately, they are the beneficiaries.

And of course, things are much, much harder during lockdown, so try not to give yourself such a hard time! Give yourself permission to have a break and do something you enjoy once in a while. It's good for your DC to see you happy and fulfilled and not stressing once in a while.

Finally, fwiw, I think parents who doubt themselves, get anxious and don't think they are doing a good enough job, are often better than those who have supreme confidence in themselves and never question their own strategies!

As for your house-cleaning strategy tomorrow, instead of sending off the DC to sort out their rooms alone while you tackle the rest, which is a bit boring and lonely for them, how about you mix it up a bit, make it a team effort, put on loud music, set a timer, and all pick tasks out of a jar, or cross them off a white board together, give them tasks slightly above their skill levels, which makes the DC feel more responsible and "invested" ifyswim and it's a bit more fun doing it collectively. It may not be up to your standards but they may be more willing to try again next time... .

Disclaimer: all of the above strategies go a bit pear-shaped again when adolescence hits of course

I find the parenting website "Kids in the house" to be well balanced and helpful.

I don’t know who should tell them off / tell them what to do really. Obviously emergency services in an emergency. Teachers. I know that sounds ridiculous

See this is fundamental. You have no concept of being in charge. Your kids must feel really insecure because they can't feel the floor. They have no base. They have no-one who will take charge of things FOR them. They need to see you as competent and strong because they need to know they're safe. If you can't control them, how can they trust you to keep them secure?

Of COURSE you get to tell them off. Do you say no to them and mean it? Do you carry things through that you say you'll do? Because you absolutely have to. And you staying with your seven year old until 9:30 isn't going to make her feel more secure, it's going to make her feel less secure. 'If Mummy needs to be here with me then I'm not safe alone'

Tuck her in, read a story, hug,and goodbye. Do some tidying up or something upstairs so she can hear that you're there, so she knows she's not been abandoned, but DON'T go back in again. Then after a few minutes of tidying, whatever's going on in her room, you go downstairs. If she comes down, you take her hand and take her straight upstairs again, tuck her in, kiss, leave. Rinse and repeat over and over. You might have a painful few evenings, but you DON'T GIVE UP. She needs you to be strong.

Love the idea of them being guided or led and house cleaning music .

I have never felt in charge, ever. I think at the heart of it I sort of feel nobody should ever have to tell anyone off as people should just do the right thing anyway. I think that is why I absolutely hated the toddler stage as toddlers have no concept at all of how to behave appropriately.

I do say no to some stuff but not a huge amount and it has become much harder during lockdown.

Easy enough to give the phones as a reward after set things completed

Think of a pack of dogs. Every pack needs an alpha. Without that, they all squabble and fight to be top dog and it all goes to shit. They need and want a leader. Your children need that more than you, that's why you have to be the one to do it.

I get it, I'm not a natural leader either and I hate saying no and listening to the resulting tantrums (my child's just turned 3) but, like the dishes and the laundry, it just has to be done.

A couple of other thoughts having re-read your posts:

• I think your expectations of a seven and nine year old are a bit unrealistic if you think they should naturally want to autonomously "better themselves". They are kids fhs! Hopefully, they are happy being kids which is as it should be . Yes, they need us to push them a bit outside their own comfort zones but equally they should be allowed to just "be" sometimes too.

It's natural to be irritated with them for moaning and not being satisfied with what they have (small garden etc) - especially under lockdown - but (without wishing to sound harsh at all) are you sure you are not modelling dissatisfaction with them simply for "being kids" too? You are maybe a bit disappointed in them that they are not like you used to be as a child (doing hwk without complaint/not bickering with sibling) ? Maybe they sense that dissatisfaction/disappointment and are "echoing" it in turn? (Maybe too much armchair psychology in that theory though!).

Also, you wouldn't have really known what motivated you as a child of seven? Was it subconsciously wanting your father's approval? You couldn't know at that age. But it is possible that something did and it wasn't all autonomous.

-Given that your DC have previously done hwk in waiting rooms , prior to extra-curric lessons, then that has provided a natural framework/timescale within which the work should be completed and they feel all at sea doing it at home with lots of time stretching before them. So maybe trying to imitate those natural boundaries might help ie "let's all do 20 mins of English" then go out for a picnic...let's do 20 mins of art then do Joe Wicks or whatever..but mix it up a lot at that age? Lower your expectations and keep it all short and sweet, 20 mins of focused work being better than 40 mins of resisting and faddling about... then build it up slowly... .

Also, forgive me if I am wrong, but always doing hwk in changing rooms might mean that they are ordinarily a bit over-scheduled, so haven't developed the skills to endure boredom and begin to play creatively on their own?

Maybe try taking tablets and screens away over a weekend and giving them things like huge cardboard boxes, old sheets, mini ladders, cheap rolls of lining paper, which could help them to learn to play imaginatively on their own, and give you a break from being so hands on all the time? Maybe?

I have never felt in charge, ever. I think at the heart of it I sort of feel nobody should ever have to tell anyone off as people should just do the right thing anyway.

I think that’s fair if you’re dealing with adults, it children aren’t just younger adults they are developing into being adults - their cognitive processing is still developing, their emotional intelligence is still developing, their understanding of cause and effect, the way they understand the world and the impact they have on people around them are all still developing. You’re asking them to do something beyond their innate capacity as a child.

And in fairness, what’s accepted as appropriate behaviour can vary hugely depending on your background, culture, family values so you need to teach children what’s ok and not ok in the here and now.

It does sound like you want to be a friend more than a parent. You are the adult and you make the decisions. yes you can have their input on certain matters, but not everything should be up for discussion. You arent a team, you're a family. Two completely different ways of looking at it.

I have never felt in charge, ever

But you are. And you should be. I think you sound lost between trying to instill boundaries and having control as a parent should vs allowing them to have opinions and become confident individuals. They can do both. You seem to be leaning just one way.
You are their parent and often what you say just goes.
If you cant get a handle on this whole dynamic now, you will really struggle during the teen years.

I have never felt in charge, ever. I think at the heart of it I sort of feel nobody should ever have to tell anyone off as people should just do the right thing anyway

Listen, maybe you were like that as a kid, I don't know. I suspect your compliance may have been more from lack of options tbh. However most kids aren't, and they need guidance and boundaries.

BUT I totally empathise with your frustration with them not wanting to do anything apart from watch YouTube. I came up with lots of ideas of educational things for my DS to do and watch and I've now given up. To be fair he goes to school a few days a week but on the days he's at home as long as he's outside or not on his phone or Xbox that's enough for me. Lockdown isn't bringing out the resourceful, self directed side in many people kids or adults so give them and yourself a break on that.

11-15 age group here. We get them up at a set time. All homework has to be done before anything else. No one gets to look at crap before hand. Some are getting very little from school some are doing 3 hours daily.

Everyone makes one meal a week on a preset day.

Someone lays the table every day. Everyone clears and cleans after meals.

Everyone helps do the washing.

Showers and teeth daily.

Everyone outside every day.

They sort out a 2 weekly riding timetable with 2 fixed rides (that I put on).

Everyone gets their own supper.

There's a book called the entitlement trap which you really ought to get and read. It's very interesting and might solve your problems and change their lives. You need to filter some of the American stuff out. But the concept is fascinating.

it was when I learned that children prefer adults to be in charge it made it easier.
I agree. One of the worst behaved and saddest kids I know has parents who believe in no rules. It's really quite upsetting as kids definitely need well-reasoned rules and need to feel safe.

I think during lockdown you need to pare it back to what’s important to you and try to build a relationship where your children want to cooperate. I now have 2 rules:

You cannot watch rubbish before school work is done, but you can do craft, exercise, read, experiment. This is incentive led.
Don’t be a dick (includes tidy up after yourself and don’t moan too much). This is discipline led. If you’re being a dick you’ll get a time out or told off.

That’s what works for me, what works for you will be different. I am lucky as I’m not working so get time to chat with dd who’s 8. I may mention that having a messy bedroom makes me feel stressed or talking over friends means they may not want to zoom again. It’s not just discipline, you need to plant seeds then have a further conversation if necessary.