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Caroline Flack found dead

999 replies

LittleScottish · 15/02/2020 17:39

Poor, poor woman...

OP posts:
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Bluntness100 · 17/02/2020 17:56

Dina, the press is reporting her case was being heard in the crown court. Not magistrates. I don't think the actual charges have been disclosed have they?

Quartz2208 · 17/02/2020 18:20

Sadly I think she has been quite unwell for awhile. The incident is December I think was because she was unwell and did not cos her to be.

HappyJustToBe · 17/02/2020 18:35

There are far too many people trying to simplify a complicated situation.

It is very frustrating as a criminal solicitor to read some of the misinformation on the internet generally.

Lewis Burton did not support the prosecution but cases are evidence led. The CPS lawyer reviewing the case thought there was a realistic prospect of conviction on the evidence they had
Res Gestae evidence of the phone call, injuries etc. That does not mean she was guilty. It means there was a real prospect that a court hearing all the evidence could find her guilty to the criminal standard.

I think every criminal solicitor will have tales of conducting a trial where on paper it looked open and shut but when witnesses give their evidence in court it sounds different, it unfolds differently. They add a bit in which is wildly inconsistent or change their story.

Regardless of whether she was guilty or not her loss of life is tragic. It looks like she was charged with s39 battery (though some reporting suggests s47 ABH). The sentence for that is 6 months custody maximum. She was unlikely to go to immediate custody even if convicted and sentenced. That was the most serious penalty facing her in law. Not death.

From what I have read (and only in newspapers where journalists, not lawyers, give an account of what has happened and what was said in court) the CPS decision seems a reasonable one and it will not have been taken lightly. There is a lot of vitriol for the Crown and I feel for the lawyer who - doing their job - is now being blamed for a death, by some.

I have seen that Lewis Burton is being told via Instagram that this is his fault and she would be here if he hadn't rang the police. That is appalling.

Victimless prosecutions are very much the norm nowadays when there is the evidence aside from the account of the victim - who may have retracted their statement or support for a variety of reasons. It is just wrong for Caroline's management company to say it was a show trial. In my experience with the Criminal Justice System to not prosecute would have been to treat her differently for her celebrity status or her sex.

That isn't to say there isn't a conversation to be had around the support for defendants in the justice system. All people, even the very guilty, need to be supported, in my view. People make mistakes. People also purposefully set out to hurt people in horrific ways. People are accused maliciously of crimes they didn't commit. As a society we need to be better than the individual. The Criminal Justice System is failing currently. It is failing victims, it is failing defendants and it is failing the public. There isn't the money to do things properly every time. A lot of people baulk at the idea for extra money "for criminals" but an effective justice system benefits us all. Especially when we more and more people with mental health difficulties find themselves within the system as services are cut to the bone and cannot support them.

EuroMillionsWinner · 17/02/2020 18:36

The thing about all this 'reach out' and 'talk' and 'be more open' is that it doesn't really solve much practically. A LOT of people who are depressed have a great many circumstances that contribute to their condition if not outrightly causing it. They can talk from now until the world ends but it won't magic up adequate housing, a stable job, self-esteem to leave abusive relationships, respite care for their disabled child or relative they are on their knees caring for, etc etc. There's a thread on here about how patients in chronic pain are having their pain meds cut at a stroke due to new prescribing guidelines, with NO reasonable alternative, making them suffer untold agony and become depressed and even suicidal; ditto those who suffer chronic insomnia.

Another poster created a really good thread about the lack of practical support for people with conditions like ADHD and MH issues, such as support in the home to get organised, real and continual help with money management and the like. Instead it's 'reach out' and 'talk'.

Well, IME, I CBA'd talking because it wasn't going to change a fucking thing about the circumstances that were causing my depression and were beyond my control.

Talk is cheap.

If society really wants to do something about depression and mental illness it's going to cost, but no one wants to pay. So the suffering continues.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 17/02/2020 18:38

so it wasn't going to go to the Crown Court anyway. It would have been heard by the local Magistrate's Court, so no jury involved at all.

Someone posted on here yesterday that it had already been heard in the magistrates court and was being passed up to crown court.

EvilPea · 17/02/2020 19:05

I do genuinely think some people are just not for this world. (I am not surmising here for CF)
If most of your life has been a struggle getting up, in and out of hospital, constant battles with your mental health, getting from one down to the next, with only the odd blip of ups.
I sort of think, I can understand it. It’s obviously devastating for those left behind. But if life is constant pain and battle, I can see how you’d come to that conclusion.

SunshineCake · 17/02/2020 19:13

@GabsAlot

Are you sure Caroline's family have complained / blamed the CPS as it was stated quite clearly this morning her family are not blaming them.

ChicChicChicChiclana · 17/02/2020 19:14

Talking of being kind, CF's partner has posted a terrible attack on two named members of her management agency on his Instagram today. I expect he regrets it already and people will minimise it because of his suffering. But still.

ShatnersWig · 17/02/2020 19:19

What did he say Chic? It's about time some questions were aimed their way frankly

DenimDrift · 17/02/2020 19:22

how have her management failed her? for all we know they may have been offering help and support daily......what questions would you ask them because you can't force someone to engage if they don't want it.

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 17/02/2020 19:28

It's about time some questions were aimed their way frankly

They aren't doctors/psychiatric nursesConfused

ChicChicChicChiclana · 17/02/2020 19:29

What questions, Shatners?

They were wrong to put out that statement about the show trial (as I said very early on on the thread that got deleted) but he is being unkind in a most inflammatory way.

I don't do Instagram but I read this on a news website - an unpopular MN one which I have to read because of my job.

queenjaneappro · 17/02/2020 19:30

It's her ex partner - Andrew Brady who has posted a lengthy statement today.

I'll try and screen shot it

queenjaneappro · 17/02/2020 19:31

Andrew Brady's post

Caroline Flack found dead
Caroline Flack found dead
Caroline Flack found dead
queenjaneappro · 17/02/2020 19:31

Last 2 parts

Caroline Flack found dead
Caroline Flack found dead
ShatnersWig · 17/02/2020 19:32

It's not so much about the last few weeks but for some time. I'm not sure how well they've been managing their client which includes looking out for their well being. That's why I'd be interested to know what her partner said because her ex has ALSO come forth (he of course have previously hinted at abuse from CF towards him) and said he does not blame CPS but.... her management team.

ChicChicChicChiclana · 17/02/2020 19:32

Oh, apologies. Ex partner? I'm sorry, my mistake.

The "be kind" message still seems to have been lost.

ShatnersWig · 17/02/2020 19:33

Cross post. Just the ex, not partner.

queenjaneappro · 17/02/2020 19:33

They've not posted in the right order, but you get the message.

I'm not sure if I feel sorry for him or think he's very hypocritical? Or both perhaps.

Bit concerned for his mental health as well as he's clearly very distressed.

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 17/02/2020 19:34

What an absolute bell endHmm

Bluntness100 · 17/02/2020 19:37

It looks like she was charged with s39 battery (though some reporting suggests s47 ABH). The sentence for that is 6 months custody maximum

I'm surprised anyone claiming to be a solicitor would write this.

Firstly the cps have not stated the charge. It was only confirmed to her recently they were prosecuting

Secondly it is being reported as going to the crown court, and if that is correct the max sentence is not six months, it's five years. It's the magistrates court who can only give max six months.

The magistrates court will refer it to crown court due to the seriousness of rhe case, or if the sentence wouldn't reflect that seriousness.

Caroline as not facing a max six months. She was facing a max of five years as this was being heard in the crown court.

queenjaneappro · 17/02/2020 19:39

She was charged with common assault, she had pleaded hearing and trial was set for 4 March - in the magistrates, common assault has max 6 months.

GabsAlot · 17/02/2020 19:39

sorry i meant her management

thats a heartbreaking post from andrew must be in bits

HappyJustToBe · 17/02/2020 19:40

From the Mirror -

"She was due to attend Highbury Corner Magistrates Court in London on March 4 after she pleaded not guilty to assault by beating"

So six months not five years.

Bluntness100 · 17/02/2020 19:40

It was referred to the crown court by the magistrates court. That's where it was being heard.

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