Caroline Flack found dead

[LittleScottish]

Poor, poor woman...

Hearing of CF's problems reminds me to try to be as kind as possible as no one knows what people are wrestling with. Perhaps people should remember that when they're posting as some people are being aggressive and hostile.

@lynsey91 so what mental health help would you like to see 'in this country'??

what help for mental illness as you call it, are we lacking here?

The papers should have left CF alone totally, for the simple reason that it can prevent the chance of a fair trial.

so you would think the same of all of them @helenadove......prince andrew, and the rest ??

media and papers leave them alone, no reporting on it, no public knowledge of any of it?

Are you joking @DenimDrift? Have you ever known anyone personally who has severe depression and wants to end their life and managed to get sufficient support for them? Nowadays if someone needs a psychiatric admission they either have to wait for weeks for a bed or have to travel miles out of area away from all support. Psychiatric services for people with chronic mental illness are being reduced year by year, one ward at a time.

Was the reporting of the CF case consistent with the law? It seems an awful lot of supposed facts about what happened that night it were reported before it had actually gone to trial.

@DenimDrift why are you being so hostile towards @lynsey91?

What is it you don't get about her post, about her personal experience?

@DenimDrift Until someone has been found guilty of a crime that is exactly what should happen.

What help for mental illness are we lacking here? That can't be a serious question.

yes its a serious question of course

its indicated that this country is lacking, so what is it that other countries have that we don't?

The papers should have left CF alone totally, for the simple reason that it can prevent the chance of a fair trial.

I think this is something the judge would have had to decide on. Particularly with jury selection. If it was a jury trial that is and not simply one with a judge, which can be done in the crown court. The judge could have decided that due to jury bias it would be a bench trial only with no jury if both sides were amenable. To ensure a fair trial and no jury bias.

I think the main issues from what I can glean is Caroline confessed to it in her police statement, and her partner also gave a statement saying she had done it, this coupled with his injuries, the scene, 999 call etc, is all a bit overwhelming evidence.

Once he gave his statement, he is then a witness and has to appear in court when summoned, failure to do so would result in his arrest. The fact he changed his mind and no longer wished to is not relevant. He would need to appear for questioning.

Domestic violence laws have been tightened up over the last couple of years, only ten percent of cases were prosecuted, and rhe public demanded an improvement, to take if more seriously and rhe laws and processes were changed to reflect that. So they can't really change that back because of a high profile case. Tightening it up was the right thing to do.

The elements of fit to stand trial, or jury trial v bench trial are seperate issues, that would need to be dealt with.

All in though, it's irrelevant for this case now sadly, but important understanding for others, to know that a victim does not need to be in favour of pressing charges for it to go ahead.

@Nirvana1979 “Its irrelevant now anyway.”

Your words not mine buddy.

I also feel very sorry for her partner.

I feel sorry for the people who loved and supported her, with all these "poor woman, if she'd only had some support" comments flying around. Talking and listening are not a magic wand when it comes to depression.

@ChicChicChicChiclana she had a friend staying with her which suggests she was getting support but I think she took the opportunity of her friend going to the shops to commit suicide. If this is true, it shows she was determined to do it. The friend must feel awful.

Exactly, MissEliza.

I had a friend who committed suicide. She had a very close group of friends and a supportive family. She was getting help, she was an in-patient at psychiatric hospital. The staff there thought she was getting better, so much so they gave a pass to leave the hospital by herself for the morning. It was some freedom to recognise how far she’d come. While out, she committed suicide in a way that meant she’d clearly pre-planned it.

We can have all the support in the works, but if our own head isn’t supportive ...

DivinationDandy I agree.

I lost a school friend years ago and a member of my family this time last year to suicide. All the 'be kind' messages are really cheesing me off. It's not a case of being kind and everything will be ok. I really don't like the fact that people are looking for someone to blame. CF was clearly a very troubled woman before the police were involved, this may well have happened even without their involvement. She had people being kind to her,she was clearly very determined to end things.

I agree about the be kind message @DivinationDandy.

I think Flack was ill equipped to deal with the consequences of her actions, and probably didn't realise she was abusing until after the arrest, because as can be seen in this thread, many people still think it's normal to be violent whether in drink or otherwise.

If just one person walks away from the thread thinking, goodness, I've slapped my partner when I thought he cheated before, that was actually abuse wasn't it, my goodness I need to change - well that's good. Abuse is everyone's business, and it takes brave people from the outside to call it out sometimes as those around Caroline were sadly not doing it enough. It might have been a case of needing to be firm to be kind there.

I lost a dear friend recently and she had tonnes of support, she couldn’t have been stopped, she literally escaped. So all this talk of reaching out, please speak to me if you’re feeling down - yes it can work for some people but if you really want to take your own life, you wouldn’t tell anyone because you know they would try to stop you. Just awful for her family and friends. And I don’t think that blame helps anyone. I read she had received medical attention the day before, they are going to feel terrible about this as well.

Determined to end things because of what happened at the end of last year?

I wonder why the police and paramedics were called out the day before she ended things.
She apparently told people she was suicidal though.

Sadly some people can’t be saved. In older times they would have been sectioned, but it’s more about community care now.

For clarity, it's been reported that the assault charge made against CF was at the bottom end of the scale Bluntness100,so it wasn't going to go to the Crown Court anyway. It would have been heard by the local Magistrate's Court, so no jury involved at all.

this may well have happened even without their involvement

That's a really important point.

Unique the press are reporting they paramedics were called out due to concern for her welfare but she had recovered and was "coherent" by the time they arrived.

Psychosis is a symptom of severe depression, which can present as rapid, disturbed, or constant speech and an inability to hold a train of thought, so pauses and going off at tangents, talking fast, saying odd things, talking all the time kind of thing.

None of us know the reason why they were called, but the fact they are saying she was stabilised and "coherent" when they arrived, which is why she was not hospitalised, indicates she was not coherent before they did.

As we do know she was clinically depressed, and lack of coherency can be a symptom of this as stated above.