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Caroline Flack found dead

999 replies

LittleScottish · 15/02/2020 17:39

Poor, poor woman...

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todayisnottuesday · 16/02/2020 21:42

@DivinationDandy

Hmm I was with you but you've lost me here.
There's such a thing called safeguarding. And another called coercive control. Also, Stockholm Syndrome. And corrosive shame.

Believe me, I know all of that only too well, and I know it is common.

But we don't know for definite that any of those things applied her and were the reason he is not blaming her. There are other possible explanations for it that were never established, for example he may have believed that IF she was in the grip of psychosis, she was not responsible for any actions at that time.

I'm not saying that is definitely the case, just that there COULD be alternative explanations that we do not know about, hence why I don't agree with those labelling her as guilty as fact.

floatygoat · 16/02/2020 21:48

I am not minimising an isolated incident. I'm saying you can't use one alleged isolated incident, which the details we know not of, to write someone off and spit on their (freshly dug) grave in the disgusting manner people on this thread are doing.

Grim.

LoveNote · 16/02/2020 21:48

The Alex Skeel case,and Alex himself, has highlighted the domestic abuse men suffer

Look him up.....read about his case

todayisnottuesday · 16/02/2020 21:49

DivinationDandy

What evidence is there that she had mental problems. I mean evidence, not assumptions

Lots. I don't base my opinions on assumption, and wish others would do the same, the world would be a much kinder and fairer place if they did.

She was taking anti-depressants. She spoke of her depression and suicidal ideation via social media. She spoke of feeling 'really weird' for many months.

LoveNote · 16/02/2020 21:49

@floatygoat how do you know it was one isolated case then?

floatygoat · 16/02/2020 21:50

@LoveNote how do you know it wasn't???

todayisnottuesday · 16/02/2020 21:51

how do you know it was one isolated case then?

How do you know it wasn't?

That said, I agree that even one isolated case is still unacceptable. IF she was guilty of that.

todayisnottuesday · 16/02/2020 21:52

@LittleScottish

Ha - great minds and all that .....

Bouledeneige · 16/02/2020 21:58

Check out her ex-fiance. Implication is that his extended trip abroad was financed by an NDA. And that this was not an isolated incident.

ShatnersWig · 16/02/2020 21:58

The ex boyfriend seemed to indicate it was not isolated

todayisnottuesday · 16/02/2020 22:00

The Alex Skeel case,and Alex himself, has highlighted the domestic abuse men suffer

Why? How is it relevant here? From what I have seen people are defending her against being labelled an abuser when that had not been established, and in the eyes of the law she was not guilty of anything. And may never have been charged as such. Her sex is irrelevant.

Disgusting that the 'men suffer too' brigade (who frequently hijack any discussion on male against female DV) think it appropriate to use the horrible, needless death of a young, talented woman to try and make some sort of point.

Yes, we get it. Men can be abused too. Perhaps her boyfriend was. But we simply DO NOT KNOW that was the case here. So wtf has her sex got to do with it? If he was a man who was still innocent in the eyes of the law, I would also oppose him being labelled an abuser as fact.

todayisnottuesday · 16/02/2020 22:07

The ex boyfriend seemed to indicate it was not isolated

Yes, which would no doubt have formed a part of the prosecution against her. But it still doesn't mean she would have necessarily been found guilty. She never got the chance to defend herself and now never will, hence why I don't agree with those saying she was definitely guilty. She has many high profile exes and only 2 recent ones have mentioned any abuse. Which appears to coincide with the time her MH is reported to have been in decline. I just wish people would apply a bit more caution when making assumptions and assassinating the character of a dead women when they are not in full possession of the facts.

stophuggingme · 16/02/2020 22:08

@todayisnottuesday
Just because her boyfriend doesn’t blame her doesn’t necessarily mean it didn’t happen.

That is an extremely naive construction

floatygoat · 16/02/2020 22:08

Too much speculation and not enough proof to warrant the vitriol on this thread.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 16/02/2020 22:13

If he was a man who was still innocent in the eyes of the law, I would also oppose him being labelled an abuser as fact.

So have you pulled up everyone who has been blaming her ex boyfriend? All the people on the threads about Prince Andrew, or Michael Barrymore, or Philip Schofield? I've seen lots of comments on those threads accusing them of all sorts and none have been charged or arrested or convicted of any crime.

She was accused and charged. That is fact and undisputed. What I'm angry about are the people, now that she's dead, who want any mention of this erased from history whilst they happily point the finger at the ex boyfriend and blame him for dialling 999. That is beyond disgusting.

NerrSnerr · 16/02/2020 22:18

With all the speculation on Mumsnet and I imagine everywhere else on the Internet I really hope her ex doesn't feel forced into having to tell his side of the story to set the record straight.

How does all the speculation actually help anyone (apart from your own morbid fascination about someone you've never met?). It certainly won't be helping her loved ones to have all you 'experts' giving opinions on what she did or didn't do and why.

DivinationDandy · 16/02/2020 22:19

todayisnottuesday Sun 16-Feb-20 21:49:15
DivinationDandy
What evidence is there that she had mental problems. I mean evidence, not assumptions

Lots. I don't base my opinions on assumption, and wish others would do the same, the world would be a much kinder and fairer place if they did.
---
@todayisnottuesday you've named the wrong poster here, the quote in bold wasn't written by me. Pointing out the confusion here as it's not something I'd ever say.

ShatnersWig · 16/02/2020 22:19

Hearhooves you left out Cliff Richard from your list of the MN usual hit list who are guilty of stuff regardless.

FrippEnos · 16/02/2020 22:25

todayisnottuesday

Putting things in CAPITALS does not make them REASONS. They are still just EXCUSES for her behaviour.

And there is very little speculation as to why he rang as the call is public knowledge.

todayisnottuesday · 16/02/2020 22:34

Just because her boyfriend doesn’t blame her doesn’t necessarily mean it didn’t happen.

Please read my posts, I'm well aware of that.

So have you pulled up everyone who has been blaming her ex boyfriend? All the people on the threads about Prince Andrew, or Michael Barrymore, or Philip Schofield?

No, because they are still alive and able to defend themselves against any abuse or untrue allegations. That said, I don't agree with any character assassinations judgement formed on hearsay, as I say I prefer facts.

And because their families aren't having to face reading vicious and perhaps untrue judgements about someone they loved dearly, whose life became so intolerable she decided to end it. Our life instinct as human beings is ridiculously strong, I have seen people in their 90's with terminal and painful conditions still struggle to breathe for days on end due to how strong that instinct is. I can't begin to imagine how much someone must be suffering and struggling to take the decision to go against every instance we should have in that way.

Ultimately, I unfortunately know how devastating and soul destroying it is to deal with the suicide someone you loved dearly, if I also had to deal with people who didn't know her assassinating her character and forming judgements against her when they do not have the facts, it would absolutely break me.

Caroline is now at peace. Her parents and loved ones will never know peace of mind again. They may read the awful things that have been said. Why is some peoples opinion, and desire to be unkind given the circumstances, more important than causing further suffering to people who will already be in unbearable pain?

todayisnottuesday · 16/02/2020 22:39

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todayisnottuesday · 16/02/2020 22:44

you've named the wrong poster here, the quote in bold wasn't written by me. Pointing out the confusion here as it's not something I'd ever say.

I did. Apologies for that.

I'm not even going to bother to re-direct it to the correct poster though. Attempting debate with bigots is pointless.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 16/02/2020 22:47

Why is some peoples opinion, and desire to be unkind given the circumstances, more important than causing further suffering to people who will already be in unbearable pain?

And yet you excuse the terrible things being written about the ex boyfriend because he's still alive and can defend himself? So it doesn't matter to you that the things being written about him are likely to cause him terrible pain?

Can you not see that by idolising CF as many people are doing they are making her the victim in this and shifting the blame for what has happened onto her ex. So many times today I have read blatant comments laying the blame at his door. That is disgusting and should not be tolerated.

FrippEnos · 16/02/2020 22:47

todayisnottuesday

Ignoring the unnecessary name calling.

You are not basing basing your argument on any facts. Something that you are happy to call others out on.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 16/02/2020 22:54

No, because they are still alive and able to defend themselves against any abuse or untrue allegations. That said, I don't agree with any character assassinations judgement formed on hearsay, as I say I prefer facts.

And because their families aren't having to face reading vicious and perhaps untrue judgements about someone they loved dearly, whose life became so intolerable she decided to end it.

The mental.gymnastics required to sustain such views are amazing.

So you believe innocent until.proven guilty but only for the dead. You can accuse those alive of anything, no matter if true or not, because they are alive to defend themselves? That's your argument?

And such comments won't be hurtful to their families because they are still alive?

Surely if you believe in innocent until proven guilty then that should apply to everyone?

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