Page 30 | Caroline Flack found dead

todayisnottuesday · 16/02/2020 20:57

Also people who are mentally ill can decline treatment, but how can they be allowed to when their judgement might be impaired by their illness?

Because, unless they meet the extremely high threshold needed for a section, they are classed as having the capacity to make their own decisions, you cannot force someone with capacity to take medication without their consent.

Designerenvy · 16/02/2020 20:57

I am being all sympathetic towards her and feels it's an awful tragedy, that anyone thinks there is no alternative to suicide.
However, my DH pointed out to me that she assaulted her boyfriend, he can't understand the outpouring of sympathy for her. He reckons if a man did what she did, he would get very little sympathy and I'm kind of finding myself slightly agreeing with him .
What she did was wrong .
And domestic abuse is nothing to complacent about. Believe me, I know, I grew up in a home with DV.
However, I cant hep but feel sorry for her, I was never a fan or not a fan of hers ..... I didn't know a lot about her, but she always seemed a bit fragile to me .
If nothing else, her legacy of " Be Kind" is a positive one that will make every one us think twice before we type.
RIP Caroline .

todayisnottuesday · 16/02/2020 20:59

I didn't put an ascertain either way, as you did.

I quite clearly said 'she may have been guilty, she may not have been'. If you are going to comment on my posts can you at least read them first.

What I did say is that in they eyes of the law, she was not guilty.

MitziK · 16/02/2020 20:59

Solicitors can only advise - they can't make anybody plead either way.

Hence why high profile murder cases have had ridiculous excuses, such as 'I found her dead body on the street and had sex with it, but I didn't rape and kill her', 'She asked me to do it and it went wrong, I panicked, went on Tinder to set up my next date and then put her in a suitcase because I didn't do it', 'Her Dad's girlfriend did it because she's jealous of her' or 'a strange man did it and ran away after leaving no evidence of his own existence but making sure my DNA was all over her'. They still have to be represented. As long as they maintain their innocence to their solicitor.

Bluntness100 · 16/02/2020 21:01

I'd agree and technically in the eyes Of the law, she was innocent until proven guilty. No different to a man in this situation.

floatygoat · 16/02/2020 21:02

I don't really feel comfortable with people vetoing any sympathy or grieving for someone because of an alleged , possibly isolated incident when they were both under the influence at 2am.

People seem to be writing her off as a serial domestic abuser when there isn't any evidence for such a character assassination.

I'm genuinely shocked at how vicious people can be when someone has just died.

ShatnersWig · 16/02/2020 21:05

Ah, one isolated violent assault is ok to be overlooked is it?

todayisnottuesday · 16/02/2020 21:05

I ascertained that I knew she was legally represented as that is also a fact.

And domestic abuse is nothing to complacent about. Believe me, I know, I grew up in a home with DV.

And believe me, I also know as I suffered appalling domestic abuse for many years. But that does not mean I can't think its wrong for people to have decided she was definitely guilty of the crime when we are not party to many of the facts surrounding it, and that she had not been found guilty by the courts by the time she died.

thetoddleratemyhomework · 16/02/2020 21:06

@todayisnottuesday

I agree with you - we don't know what happened and we cannot assume she is guilty.

However, there are those who are going to extreme lengths to defend Caroline's behaviour on social media and blame her BF or the police/CPS. We cannot blame the police or the CPS for prosecuting if they believed that they had evidence that could establish those facts. You cannot let someone escape punishment if there is reason to believe that the facts exist, even if someone is mentally fragile.

We CAN blame those who hounded her and claimed or insinuated that she was guilty before knowing what the facts were. Reporting what is said in open court is not claiming someone is guilty.

Probably, for CF, any reporting of the case against her was likely to be distressing, but provided that it was only a report that there was a case against her, that is in my view the right side of the line. The criminal courts are public courts for a reason, which is that it is important that people are not tried behind closed doors - to avoid allegations either that people have been victimised or let off too lightly.

Clearly, of course, there were media outlets and trolls who crossed that line by a long way.

IhateBoswell · 16/02/2020 21:06

I'm genuinely shocked at how vicious people can be when someone has just died.

This thread is disgusting.

todayisnottuesday · 16/02/2020 21:07

Ah, one isolated violent assault is ok to be overlooked is it?

Who said that?

I'm genuinely shocked at how vicious people can be when someone has just died.

Yep. If this is the vitriol she gets after dying an awful and premature death you can only imagine the sort of crap she had to deal with when alive and well eh. Poor woman.

LoveNote · 16/02/2020 21:09

wasn't there a previous boyfriend who claimed she was aggressive too?

thetoddleratemyhomework · 16/02/2020 21:10

Posted too soon - the end of my message was supposed to say.

But as Caroline Flack cannot now defend herself I think that the focus should be not on what she did or did not do, but on the fact that a bright young woman has died and her friends and relatives have lost a valued loved one. RIP Caroline.

DivinationDandy · 16/02/2020 21:12

I agree that the bottom line is that, in the eyes of the law she was innocent, as she had been charged but not convicted (because she was awaiting trail).

LuxDesignWish · 16/02/2020 21:12

I am trying to get people to understand that we don't know what happened in this case but I am also a bit disgusted with how people are talking about her so won't be adding to this thread anymore. It's unbelievable how many people feel so certain that she was in the wrong when no one here has full information on this case. I find it quite alarming actually. People are innocent until proven guilty in the UK justice system. She unfortunately never got to tell her side of the story.

todayisnottuesday · 16/02/2020 21:13

. We cannot blame the police or the CPS for prosecuting if they believed that they had evidence that could establish those facts

I agree, and as I said before, I dislike the way everyone seems to be blaming each other - the management blame the CPS, Dan Wootton et al blaming ITV. I do, however, think that those who trolled her and wrote nasty, vicious, unsubstantiated claims about her should be considering the effect that could have had, and perhaps deciding to be a bit more cautious in the future.

And I'm not saying she wasn't guilty - just that we are not able to make that judgement.

The Sun and other rags appear to think so too given that they have deleted most of the nasty things they wrote about her.

ShatnersWig · 16/02/2020 21:14

today Floaty Goat was minimising an isolated incident

todayisnottuesday · 16/02/2020 21:15

But as Caroline Flack cannot now defend herself I think that the focus should be not on what she did or did not do, but on the fact that a bright young woman has died and her friends and relatives have lost a valued loved one. RIP Caroline.

This, 100 per cent.

If the person she did this to doesn't blame her, what right have other to?

todayisnottuesday · 16/02/2020 21:19

People seem to be writing her off as a serial domestic abuser

@ShatnersWig

Yeah, I see it now. However, I would agree with the statement if the 'serial' was left out. I fully agree abuse should never be minimised. However, I disagree that someone who was never found guilty of an assault should be referred to as guilty as if it is fact. Particularly when there are clearly some complex issues at play here that we are not party to (his denials, her history of severe MH issues).

DivinationDandy · 16/02/2020 21:25

If the person she did this to doesn't blame her, what right have other to?

Hmm I was with you but you've lost me here.
There's such a thing called safeguarding. And another called coercive control. Also, Stockholm Syndrome. And corrosive shame.

I'm NOT saying any of those things apply in this situation because we don't know all the facts, only that it's possible they do. And instagram posts are public soundbites and written to be such. They don't necessarily represent how someone truly feels.

Sometimes people in abusive relationships need help to see things clearly and to be safe. And the police and CPS always have the right to charge and prosecute if there's evidence that an assault may have occurred. We all arguably have a duty to watch out for others and call out behaviour that is potentially criminal.

LoveNote · 16/02/2020 21:25

what history of her severe mh problems is there? i mean evidence not assumptions?

GabsAlot · 16/02/2020 21:25

@lovenote yes he said he wasntg surprised when she was arrested then said he couldnt say anymore because of an nda

GoldenMarigolds · 16/02/2020 21:30

May she rest in peace. Troubled soul I think.

Next week it will all be forgotten apart from her partner, family and friends.

Mitsouko67 · 16/02/2020 21:38

I'm very sad about this. I hate that programme.

trixiebelden77 · 16/02/2020 21:38

Do people really believe that male domestic abusers who die ‘don’t get any sympathy’? Really? A PPs husband said this to her with a straight face?

Hahahaha hahahahaha.

You’ve never seen the ‘good man pushed too far’ narrative? You’ve never seen men well known to be violent widely mourned and praised by the majority after their death? You believe domestic violence is taken seriously when men commit it?

What rock are you and your husbands living under?