Caroline Flack found dead

[LittleScottish]

Poor, poor woman...

Oh do one, NoSharon - you actually stated you'd help your daughter hide a body if she'd murdered someone. But you can have a go at people for supposedly insinuating they're glad someone has committed suicide when no one has said anything remotely gleeful

I hope it stops people normalising female violence in relationships. I spoke about that young guy who was in the media with my teenage nephew and his friends and all of them, female and male, had experienced or seen far more female on male violence than the other way around. They'd seen far too much of both but hitting your boyfriend or destroying his possessions was seen as quite normal female behaviour.

Bluntness, if it took Caroline's death to teach you about suicide, then you're probably very young.
You've done nothing but attack her. Why? She's dead now!

Yes. I would defend my daughter to death myself.

Bluntness, congrats, you are very young!

Beyond tragic.

I wonder whether women didn't like her because she wasn't a mother?

Did anyone see that short interview she did with Kathy Burke about being a certain age and single etc?
Please watch on YouTube.

Ah, well, it's ok. She's dead now. So you can stop disliking her.

You're right. It's really not ok.

I take offence at that, I've never once attacked her, please show where I have?

I wonder whether women didn't like her because she wasn't a mother?

Is that genuinely a thing with some women? What a weird reason to dislike somebody

I wonder whether women didn't like her because she wasn't a mother?

Nope, didn't like her when she had a relationship with a 17 year old boy, just starting out in the world of celebrity while she was 31 years old and famous. That felt like an abuse of her position.

Disliked her even more once the allegations of DV emerged.

Nothing to do with her being attractive, rich, successful, not a mother. Hth

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras do you really think it’s ok to be reported on negatively and trolled because of what you wear and the way you look? That it’s ok to be driven to suicide because that’s the life they chose to live. There is no point in conversing with someone as appalling as you, victim blaming doesn’t quite cover it.

Do I think it's ok to be criticised or trolled for your appearance? No I don't but then I also don't think it's ok to be lauded for it, paid a fortune for it or achieve fame on the back of it either. Once you make your body or your appearance your job and invite comment on it then I think it's only to be expected when some of those comments are negative. Is it right? No. But then it's not right that the celebrities doing it are contributing to the negative effects felt by ordinary women, and men too but predominantly women and girls, by creating this world where looks are more important than anything else.

I'm sorry, but if you sell your soul to the devil you can't complain when he demands payment.

I don't know if you can blame other people for suicide. People choose certain paths. Some of those are destructive. Can you really blame other people for choices that you make?

Was it the media's fault that she dated Harry Styles? Was it the media's fault that she attacked her ex boyfriend? Those were choices that she made. Maybe she did have a mental illness but elsewhere on this site that isn't accepted as an excuse for how men behave. The responses are always that it's the man's responsibility to get whatever mental health help he needs. It's no one else's responsibility to do that.

I am sorry that she died. I'm sorry because no one, no matter what they've done, should feel that is the best course of action to take but mainly I'm sorry for the effect it will have on those left behind.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras I've agreed with you on other threads and I agree with you on this one too.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

Agree. Very good post.

I was never a fan of CF. It has nothing to do with jealousy or her reproductive choices or anything ridiculous like that. When she dated Harry Styles he was 17 and she was early 30s. I thought that was deeply inappropriate and would have felt the same if she had been male and he, female. That, plus her prior history of DV meant I wasnt a fan of hers. I just never warmed to her personality.

Its ok for me not to be a fan of hers and I'm not going to apologise for that- we arent obliged to like every single person we see in the media or on tv. I didnt hate her, I never wished her ill, and I certainly dont think she "deserved to die". I am actually incredibly sad that a young woman with her whole life ahead of her felt that her only option was to do this. That is absolutely appalling- to feel so low that your only option is to end your life. For that reason, I find her death heartbreaking and I am sorry that she never found the support she so clearly needed for her mental health.

MushroomTree

Thank you.

I've just had a quick look at a post from the Independent that's on Facebook and the comments on there, blaming the ex boyfriend are disgusting. Saying that it's his fault for calling the police, that it was his fault that she hit him etc. That's what's disgusting and what a petition should be started about, but that isn't the media. That's ordinary people who are being quick to dismiss DV simply because the victim was a man.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras it was a thread about male DV victims we agreed on.

The poor man shouldn't be blamed at all. Although he probably is blaming himself at least partly.

how sad it is that a successful, attractive 40-year old woman felt her best option was to take her own life

BunnytheBee I agree that CF was physically attractive and I know you probably didn’t mean any malice by specifically referring to her as attractive here, but it’s a little in bad taste. Obviously unattractive women shouldn’t feel that suicide is their only option either. Ditto unsuccessful ones.

Attractiveness is not how we should be judging women or seeing it as a value-add to their being in the world.

I think this Guardian article makes some important points:
www.theguardian.com/law/2020/feb/16/barristers-warn-of-strain-on-defendants-caroline-flack-death

'The Crown Prosecution Service has recently been under pressure not to drop domestic violence charges even when complainants withdraw allegations.....

Flack’s death comes amid a debate over the handling of domestic violence cases by severely understaffed police and prosecutors. There have been frequent criticisms of how the justice system allows manipulative partners to deter victims from giving evidence against them in court.

The charity Women’s Aid estimates that only between a fifth and a quarter of domestic abuse victims ever report attacks to anyone in authority.

A criticial report by Her Majesty’s Crown Prosecution Inspectorate (HMCPSI) last month urged police and prosecutors to improve their development of “evidence-led domestic abuse prosecutions” where “the victim is unsupportive”.

It said: “If cases can be built without over-reliance on the victim or complainant, then it is still possible for the prosecution to proceed when the victim either does not engage from the outset or is initially supportive but withdraws their support at a later stage in proceedings.

“In some domestic abuse cases, there will be enough other evidence that the prosecution need not rely on the victim’s evidence. Police officers and prosecutors are expected, wherever appropriate, to prosecute cases based on this other evidence.”

@DivinationDandy I just meant that she seemed to have a lot to live for for various reasons and it seems she had problems too. I don’t think it is in poor taste to refer to someone as “attractive” after they’ve passed. So often I’ve read about a “beautiful” young woman who has been killed or whatever. I think you’re being petty to pick up on given all the things people are saying on this thread.

And the fact is people are judged on their appearance just as they’re judged on their job, who they date and what is said about them in the press.