Kobe and Gigi Bryant killed in helicopter crash

[KenAdams]

This is incredibly sad. Gigi had a promising basketball career ahead of her too

How marvelous that you've raised a son who doesn't care if a man forces a woman to have violent sex with him, as long as he's super good at throwing a ball about

Bloody hell, I agree! I wonder if a female sports star would be given such wriggle room if she was accused of raping someone?

just can't help thinking that had he been a fat, ugly guy who 'settled out of court' on a case like this (for example Harvey Weinstein) the outpouring of grief wouldn't be the same. It doesn't sit well with me

I lived in the US during the Mike Tyson rape case and OJ's alleged crimes. There was a great reluctance to accept that these huge stars could have been violent. I think it is a form of racism -most black men are treated appallingly by US justice system - they get longer sentences for comparable crimes, are far more likely to get the death sentence, and are often the subject of extra-judicial killings by police in dodgy circumstances. The exceptions are big sports and music stars because, IME, these are the roles that black men are "allowed" by society to have. It may be, in these rare cases, a form of racism that favours these few individuals, but it is still racism.

I hadn't heard of him and it's a horrible way to die for anyone especially a young teenage girl.

What I don't get is the outpouring of grief from those who didn't know him. Of course anyone who dies will be mourned by friends and family but strangers? Just cos he was good at throwing basketballs into a net?

I'm a massive premiership football fan and would be sad if any of my favourite players died but I wouldn't describe them as losing a hero. A hero is someone who saves lives or makes sacrifices for others etc.

The way everyone is upset about the one guy and his daughter dying but not including the rest of those who died seems a bit wrong to me. Surely we should be sympathetic to all that died in the crash. Same way we should have sympathy to anyone who died in the crash in Afghanistan this morning.

I'm confused that somehow it's disrespectful & inappropriate to acknowledge his past & that he has a complex legacy but it's fine for news reports to feature audio from the helicopter, footage of the crash, releasing details perhaps before everyone know, questioning the judgement of the pilot, footage of friends grieving.

Exactly getupnow. So many inappropriate details have been released to the general public so quickly. Someone said it was on the news before they'd had a chance to tell his wife??

Yep, news released BEFORE his family was notified. edition.cnn.com/2020/01/26/media/tmz-death-report-kobe-bryant/index.html

As far as he was concerned, it didn’t diminish his basketball legacy, and the influence he had over the game

I hope you've had a good talk with your son about consent. And how a woman can't give consent if a guy is choking her. Make sure he understands why the conviction rate for rape is so low. It's not because women make it up.

Ah no. The poster instead made her son aware that some people thought the accuser had lied. I do assume though that she also mentioned that rape has a false accusation rate of 2%, like most other crime, and that in this case the alleged victim had trauma to her vagina consistent with forced intercourse and had bled all over Bryant’s shirt.

BBC interviewed a guy from SLAM magazine this morning, I thought the host was teetering on the edge of brining up the rape allegations - but then she chickened out. Idolatry is the order of the day apparently.

To the pp who think the allegations being rehashed is unfair and in poor taste to do it now: It was discussed on MN and at length when Kobe won his Oscar (along with similar threads on Polanski, Allen, Parker, Casey Affleck, Ched Evans. There have been many discussions on here how artists, musicians and sportspeople are lauded and whether they should be hero worshipped or revered if their personal life is questionable. There have been many threads on separating people's talent from their alleged crimes or misdemeanours and whether they can still be listened to (Jackson, Bowie) or watched (Allen, Polanski).
The reason it has been brought up again is not bad timing or ghoulish muck-raking: It is because the outpouring of grief and lavish praise and tributes globally from presidents, musicians and fellow players as well as his fans elevate him to mythical hero status when his personal history would negate that. The talent of the man and his later philanthropy seemingly belies any criticism.
Now imagine Woody Allen or Roman Polanski die: the tributes come pouring in world wide...with no mention of Geimer or Farrow. People would question the coverage and that would not be unreasonable.
Kobe Bryant was a legend to so many but he was a flawed person.

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/basketball/51265909
www.thedailybeast.com/kobe-bryants-brilliant-flawed-maddeningly-driven-genius

Interesting to me to see threads get banned for bringing up Bryant's problematic legacy, while threads attacking Meghan Markle are left to stand. MM has committed no crimes nor been accused of any but the vile threads about her continue

@NancyDrewCrew, apologies then, I didn't realise that had been discussed here.

@Thestrangestthing not on the same level but look at ant mcpartlin..drunk driver and apparent adulterer but folks can't get enough of him either

Drunk driving is unforgiveable but adultery, christ, its more unusual now to find someone in the public eye who has remained faithful.

Bakedbeans or aren't allowed to get away from him. I don't know anyone who likes the Ant and Dec thing in real life.

I’m sure his rape victim feels great at reading all over the news what a lovely man everyone claims he was.

@bakedbeanzontoast

Was he not found guilty of drink driving? I can't remember, I didn't follow what happened. Even if he charges had been dropped, he was still guilty of it.

Adultry, not nice, but no one else's problem apart from him and his wife.

A 19 year old woman being raped, unforgivable.

I belong to some US-based feminist groups and today has been very upsetting for some in there. The rape trial wasn’t just about that case IYSWIM. At the time it represented the whole culture of unassailable male privilege, demonisation of those accusing them of rape, the glorification of sports people. So it brings back a lot for many sexual violence survivors.

I feel very uncomfortable with the stuff that's appearing on my Twitter feed praising him. I don't even know why I'm seeing it as I don't really follow Americans or sports. People just don't care about the rape. It says so much that male sporting personalities across the world keep getting away with this kind of behaviour and it simply gets forgotten about.

but I'm not sure why we are supposed to mourn a man who admitted having sex that his victim 'might have thought' was non-consensual, just because he was good at throwing a ball through a hoop.

Nobody has asked you to mourn anything. Quite easy just to pass the post by. But no, you decide it is necessary to be shitty about it. Let’s hope when you or a loved one has gone, your lives are so blameless that nobody immediately drags up crap about you.

Let’s hope when you or a loved one has gone, your lives are so blameless that nobody immediately drags up crap about you.

We are talking about rape here. Why do so many people minimise rape just because the rapist was good at something and became famous? It's disgusting.

Jimmy Saville raised loads of money for charity...

There is a wide blue ocean between a blameless life and having very credible allegations of violent rape made against you.

Let’s hope when you or a loved one has gone, your lives are so blameless that nobody immediately drags up crap about you.

Nice way to minimise rape there.

www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jan/27/kobe-bryant-reporter-suspended-over-sexual-assault-case-tweet-washington-post

So the Guardian report the same as the Mail - curious as I had also heard that her suspension was due to having accidentally revealed e-mail addresses in a screenshot. 10 000 death threats. Not sure even Dan Reed got that many (Neverland director).
People don't want to be reminded because he was with his child and it seems vulturish, because he was not convicted, because for some it is tearing down a black man. Timing is everything even though I support the journalist and have read the article she retweeted. Everyone has different sides to them and some mentioned rehabilitation - I am sure he was a lovely man to many - that is why neither demonising nor canonising are going to truly reflect an individual. He was also the first alleged assailant to have apologised like that in public afaik (Ansari, CK also did for different allegations) But Bryant went on to live his life without there being any consequence. But lived a better life?
Again, timing: His Oscar was controversial as it came at a time when the ceremony was focused on women's Time's Up initiative: James Franco did not get nominated but Kobe Bryant did. Then went on to win at the height of the #metoo movement.
Most of us live in glass houses and etiquette demands we don't speak ill of the dead. The 'unnecessary shittiness' ie pointing out facts on public record as opposed to unsubstantiated rumour was a result of the fawning over him en masse. One could argue such posts could also be quietly passed by if you disagree with them out of respect for the women who have been through similar and will be triggered by the public adulation for someone akin to their own assailants.