Kobe and Gigi Bryant killed in helicopter crash

[KenAdams]

This is incredibly sad. Gigi had a promising basketball career ahead of her too

I’m surprised this thread is still here.

Definitely double standards.

As far as he was concerned, it didn’t diminish his basketball legacy, and the influence he had over the game.

Glad your son’s not bothered.

Can't speak ill of the dead, presumably, even though you can't libel them.

Plenty of threads defame and slander the living though and don't get removed.

As far as he was concerned, it didn’t diminish his basketball legacy, and the influence he had over the game.

How marvelous that you've raised a son who doesn't care if a man forces a woman to have violent sex with him, as long as he's super good at throwing a ball about.

How marvelous that you've raised a son who doesn't care if a man forces a woman to have violent sex with him, as long as he's super good at throwing a ball about.

To be fair, the poster did contextualise the rape accusation by making it clear some people thought it was all made up.

Oh yes, really no surprise that her son has those views then is it? If his mother tells him that women lie.

For clarity, I name changed this morning and meant to post the above in the username I’ve used upthread and forgot. So didn’t mean to sock puppet, Mumsnet. Sorry for the mistake.

This thread is not MN’s finest hour.

God, is it any wonder girls and women don't report rape.

Charges were dropped

And? What does that prove in your mind?

I've reported this thread. It's way way out of order. People have died. If posters wanted to discuss the person's alleged crimes, they had plenty time to do so when he was alive. To wait until right after he'd died is disgusting. I've been here 16 years and this thread is just about the lowest I've seen.

Mn, I'm surprised you are allowing this to remain. What you do or don't do is nothing to do with me, but mn is all about supporting parents. A mother has lost her child and husband and you are allowing a thread slating her husband to remain.

Times have changed. Discuss alleged crimes by all means but at least have the balls to do it when the person is alive, not barely cold.

Funnily enough, a sudden spike of interest on and discussion of a person will always happen when they die, as opposed to a random thread posted at another time. I don't think it's exactly unfair to counter the ridiculous grief vampires who didn't even know him with some facts about his life. Why should these crimes be forgotten? Why should people get away with awful things because they're rich, or famous, or dead? I prefer not to cleanse men's histories at the cost of women. We've already seen some spectacular victim blaming and rape apologists on this thread alone. Fuck that.

Well whoever made the decision to fly in those weather conditions, with even the LAPD grounding it’s fleet, had very bad judgement which led to 3 children, their parents and others dying in a horrendous way.

I feel deeply sorry for their lost lives and their families. I also feel sorry for Bryant’s victim and the additional trauma the outpouring of idolisation for him will cause her.

The guy certainly didn’t deserve to be a ‘hero’ after what he did.

What do you mean 'times have changed'?

What a very curious thing to say.

No one has forgotten any alleged crimes. By anyone. But rehashing them when the person has just died isnt needed. He's been a huge public figure for a long time, why not discuss him then?
Why the rush to condemn him when he can't answer back? Do it when he is here.

Victim blaming works both ways. And I don't see any rape apologists here. Never have, they'd be chased if they tried.
There's 2 sides to every story but when one side can't give his anymore, piling in right when he's died is not needed on a forum designed to support parents.

Times have changed on mn. This thread would have been zapped long ago.

And? What does that prove in your mind?

It means the person is not guilty of a crime . This happens to many people, people have been suspected of murders and charges dropped. You can think they're guilty all you want. But in law and therefore society, they are not.

• Very sad for his family and heartbreaking that a 13 has died.

He was a violent rapist however, and I hate that rich men are allowed to rewrite history and that we mourn them and forget the women they broke.*

This!!

How can a person like this be a role model for your sons and daughters!!

Have you read what he did to that poor 19 year old???? She had multiple lacerations inside her, including one 1cm long!

He was a 6'6 man who weighed god knows what, and he admitted his thing was to choke women roughly from behind. He even admitted to having a regular bit on the side who was used to having bruises on her nick!!!

That poor poor girl.. her name was leaked to the press, her life is over.

I'm not sorry he's dead.

MN disgusts me sometimes. Let's all jump on the sympathy bandwagon.

'there's 2 sides to every story'. Yes. We heard hers. We heard his. He admitted what he did. So discussing it when he's dead isn't denying him the opportunity to defend himself, is it? And if you can't see the victim blaming on this thread, or the dismissal of his crime because he was good at basketball, then I despair.

This is a forum that was originally to support parents, and now hosts a huge range of women. Women, typically the victims of male sexual violence. Doesn't seem too much to discuss the perpetrators rather than celebrating them, does it?

As for discussing him when he can't answer back, I doubt he would have come trotting onto Mumsnet to defend himself...

It was discussed when he was alive, why are you making up some story that it wasn't? A very cursory Google turned up multiple stories over the last couple of years.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/sexual-assault-allegations-cast-shadow-over-kobe-bryant-legacy

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ypayzm/why-rape-accusations-against-kobe-bryant-did-nothing-to-hurt-his-career

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2018/03/04/at-the-metoo-oscars-kobe-bryants-win-brings-back-memories-of-his-allegations/

I also don't agree we have to avoid "rehashing" the facts of someone's life after they've died. Who else does that hold true for? Margaret Thatcher? If Harvey Weinstein drops dead before his trial ends, are we all supposed to be quiet and remember him as just an aggressive movie producer? People who choose to live their lives in the public eye leave legacies from their actions and we don't have an obligation to sugar coat them.

I’d also be enormously surprised if any member of his family were reading this thread to be honest. Lots of people who do stuff wrong have families - are we seriously not allowed to discuss them for fear of being unsupportive to their relatives?

The issue under discussion is how none of the mainstream coverage of his death is acknowledging the very real issue of accusations of violent sexual assault and the problems that leaves for his reputation. Charges were not pressed because the woman refused to proceed with the case after attack after attack by an expensive team of lawyers and mistakes made by the court. I don’t see that as ‘not guilty’; there was no criminal trial. There was a payment to the ‘alleged’ victim in civil court and a statement from Bryant himself to say he could see why she thought the sex was non consensual.

And these issues were raised during his lifetime. Not only at the time of the court case but when he won an Oscar last year and was hugely feted, at the same time that actors were being excluded post #metoo. His championing of women and girls’ basketball was questioned by some. None of what’s been said today is new.

I really hope MN can support those who want to see balanced reporting of a man with a very mixed legacy.

Well put, @Doubleraspberry

like millions in the UK, had never heard of this person before yesterday as he participated in a sport that is very obscure here - and I don't watch 'team' games anyway.

so biggest surprise was that it was such headline news!

they apparently nearly divorced but then the wife took him back. But the kid didn't deserve this and nor did the other kids. Still, from other posts on here it sounds like someone made a stupid decision to fly.

Bryant’s death is a tricky one for the UK media. He was one of the most famous people on the planet, a sporting legend and a household name in North America.

On the other hand, Basketball is not a mainstream sport in the UK and most British people have probably never heard of him. Whatever the media do, they will be criticised for getting the balance wrong.

5 live mentioned the allegations against him in their coverage this morning. Before going on to eulogise about how amazing he was.
Fine-amazing at sport. But just can't help thinking that had he been a fat, ugly guy who 'settled out of court' on a case like this (for example Harvey Weinstein) the outpouring of grief wouldn't be the same. It doesn't sit well with me.

Very sad about his his daughter and it's awful for anyone to die in those circumstances-but everyone calling him a hero---I can't get on board with that really.