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Kobe and Gigi Bryant killed in helicopter crash

214 replies

KenAdams · 26/01/2020 20:56

This is incredibly sad. Gigi had a promising basketball career ahead of her too Sad

OP posts:
MeanMrMustardSeed · 27/01/2020 01:52

Re the rape trial that didn’t happen. He wrote this part of his own story by his actions. Not us. And it is completely reasonable for us to reflect on this while the fawning media go mad.

NancyDrewCrew · 27/01/2020 02:06

Why do you think Kobe apologised in the way he did Zu? What do you hear - a non-apology, a concession there was no enthusiastic consent, a misunderstanding, as close to a confession as you're going to get, what? (genuine question)
...............................................................................................................................................................
No money has been paid to this woman. She has agreed that this statement will not be used against me in the civil case. Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter.
.....................................................................................................................................................
You see, he claimed he stopped when she said no to his request to come on her face, he claimed he had had sex with her for only five minutes after a 1 minute blowjob lacerations he claimed she was not bleeding and had not bled on him blood on shirt...as well as initially claiming he had not had sex with her at all he had until told they had physical samples and precum was a thing.
If he is saying in this apology that he understands that she felt no consent was ever given, what does that make him?

Zuvarangu · 27/01/2020 02:22

Still a boss in my eyes.

Until all these other problematic men are held to the same standard and their behaviour not excused with "it was a different time then", I will not change my stance. Address that shit first.

He was a generous man who cared about the community and gave back. He supported tons of young black men and gave them a positive avenue to escape their circumstances.

If you didn't hear me before, I said what the fuck I said.

londoncanyouwait · 27/01/2020 02:36

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BrokenLogs · 27/01/2020 02:40

I had forgotten about the tape allegation, thanks for reminding me.

I feel sorry for all affected by this tragedy, but we shouldn't forget this part of his life with all the fawning of him either.

butwhateverfor · 27/01/2020 02:47

I don't know who he is, but I feel sorry for the lady who has a new baby and other children coping with this loss.

Shev1996 · 27/01/2020 02:47

Regardless of whether people are fawning over him now is not the time for this. Nothing is to be lost by you keeping your opinions to yourselves for the sake of his surviving family. He has a wife and other children dealing with not just his loss but that of a child too. Can you show a little dignity in allowing them their grief for a short period before attacking. A child has died yet it’s all about you somehow, show some respect

MiniGuinness · 27/01/2020 02:52

Not the time for what Shev1996? I am sad that people died, especially children, but I think people are hypocritical to be fawning over a man who raped a teenager.

londoncanyouwait · 27/01/2020 02:55

It's very sad for his wife and children and I cannot imagine the pain they must be going through. No-one is denying that.

However, I agree with others who say they can't sit by and watch this man be hero-worshipped and not mention his history.

We can't pick and choose who we forgive and absolve. Just because he was an amazing sportsperson that doesn't make it ok that men like him use their power and wealth to use, abuse, intimidate and bully women.

Shev1996 · 27/01/2020 02:59

@MiniGuinness not proven, she refused to give evidence for the prosecution, but then took a cash payout. Therefore innocent until proven guilty. Whatever you believe happened or may have happened he’s dead. How does this help his remaining children? Do you want them to have to suffer? I’m sure they are hurting more than you right now

MiniGuinness · 27/01/2020 03:07

He bullied her into not testifying and paid her off. Why would an innocent man pay someone in a civil case? Also his “apology” acknowledges it was not consensual.

Shev1996 · 27/01/2020 03:42

Sorry @MiniGuinness I didn’t realise you where in the room where this happened and therefore know all the facts! Regardless though can’t you at least try to be compassionate for the family of the victims, including at least one child who are dealing with this loss. The facts are these people are dead, does what you believe effect you in such a traumatic way that you can’t allow their family members a little peace before you go on the attack?

Blubelle7 · 27/01/2020 04:24

I hope none of you have ever watched a Woody Allen film either as supporting him would also make you scum.

It's fine to feel whatever way you feel about KB, but at least have some common decency and respect, he just died a horrific death.

Death doesn't make you a saint, but it wouldn't kill any of you to hold your peace while people are mourning.

MiniGuinness · 27/01/2020 04:59

Oh I do have compassion for the families of the people (especially the children) who died. But I also have compassion for the young girl he raped and her family. It should not be erased.

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 27/01/2020 06:15

Christ imagine being so desperate that your argument is "yeah well he was technically innocent and anyway other men rape too"

Before trying to guilt people into feeling bad for not going full North Korea with public grief.

Doubleraspberry · 27/01/2020 06:17

I’m pretty sure Kobe Bryant’s family aren’t reading this thread, and also that this isn’t the only place that his mixed legacy is being raised today. It’s a bit weird to think that the sum total of adverse comment is on Mumsnet.

It would be amazing if all the bad behaviour was called out, across the board. Unfortunately the voices of the less powerful are often not heard. It is also the case often that bad deeds sit alongside good. Human life is complex. But silencing anyone who speaks for the victim isn’t on.

Doubleraspberry · 27/01/2020 06:21

But to claim within the same thread that someone’s sexual preference for rough sex is none of our business and that a woman couldn’t have been raped because she had had sex with another man within an unspecified period of time represents some real mental effort not to admit anything to yourself.

RJnomore1 · 27/01/2020 06:25

It is a tragedy for his loved ones. No one else

This.

Although I did hear some other basketball player on the news this morning talking about what a loving husband and family man he was and that made me feel sick.

Not as much as some of the posts on this thread though. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

NancyDrewCrew · 27/01/2020 06:58

It’s a bit weird to think that the sum total of adverse comment is on Mumsnet

Aside from factual obituaries there is a more balanced nuanced article here www.thedailybeast.com/kobe-bryants-brilliant-flawed-maddeningly-driven-genius

but Piers Morgan has already decried Washington Post journalist Felicia Sonmez who has been suspended for tweeting a link to the rape case?
The article she tweeted is here and before canonising the guy it should be read - it is on public record and none of it is false - It is accurate according to police interview transcript and court transcripts

www.thedailybeast.com/kobe-bryants-disturbing-rape-case-the-dna-evidence-the-accusers-story-and-the-half-confession?ref=scroll
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7932771/Journalist-suspended-tweeting-link-story-Kobe-Bryants-rape-case-2003.html

www.thedailybeast.com/kobe-bryants-disturbing-rape-case-the-dna-evidence-the-accusers-story-and-the-half-confession?ref=scroll

Doubleraspberry · 27/01/2020 07:11

If a reporter gets death threats just for reminding people the events happened, I’m not sure how anyone can find it difficult to imagine why his original accuser may have struggled to continue to press her case.

The Bryant case actually led to a change in US law, as previously there was no right to victim anonymity in pre-trial hearings. Bryant’s legal team made the absolute most of it. Her name and photo were everywhere. Her life became unbearable. She had a history of mental illness. Her character was dragged through the dirt - posters on here have raised some of the irrelevant points made.

We are at a point where many lawyers now consider rape an unprosecutable crime because the likelihood of conviction is so low. Rape myths are endemic. The Washington Post, a newspaper that prides itself on reporting unpalatable truths about powerful people is considering firing a reporter for tweeting a link to an article about this case because the whole messy incident is best forgotten.

homemadecommunistrussia · 27/01/2020 07:46

I can't understand how prominently this person's death is being reported.
There doesn't seem to be any balance, presenters could say that 'it's an enormous deal in the US and then explain a bit about his life'. Instead there is a assumption we would know who he is and no mention of the fact he wasn't exactly role model material.
I always watch the BBC and usually defend it, today I am questioning that.

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 27/01/2020 08:02

Yes who had another man's semen and pubic hair found on her underwear.

Just what point are you making by stating this? Presumably not that that has any bearing on what happened to her with Bryant? She could have shagged the entire basketball team consensually and it make fuck all difference.

The helicopter crash is a tragedy; the loss of life is a tragedy. But the eulogising of a man with such a grim accusation in his past just because he was talented at basketball is a deeply sad indication of exactly why we are where we are as a world in terms of the global tolerance of violence against women and girls.

BlackSwan · 27/01/2020 08:18

Imagine the cognitive dissonance for Americans who have to reconcile their metoo movement convictions with their unquestioning adoration of sportsmen.

I'm sorry for his & his daughter's family and the families of others who lost their lives.

ShatnersWig · 27/01/2020 08:40

How bizarre that MNHQ haven't zapped this thread like all the others. Waiting for the same message that this one "isn't in the spirit of MN and also, a child died".

Censorship is alive and well in MN when it comes to certain people but not others.

Redonion123 · 27/01/2020 08:55

My son saw I was reading this thread and the rape accusations. I explained about the rape case and some people thought the victim was making it up/was pressurised etc.

As far as he was concerned, it didn’t diminish his basketball legacy, and the influence he had over the game.

In my mind, it reminds me of when Michael Jackson died. Despite the alleged paedophile claims etc, he was celebrated for his contribution to music, and people still enjoy his music.