How would you punish DD?

[Seasonalanxiety]

DD is 14. Yesterday she was supposed to meet friends in central London for the afternoon, shop, have dinner and be back at her friend's house for a sleepover by 9.30.

I am a strict parent according to DD. I still track her phone, check with parents if she's having a sleepover, remove devices at 10pm. Her friends are all lovely but seem less supervised which makes me anxious. They are all very privileged but seemingly have a lot more freedom than I allow DD. However DD has been very depressed recently due to other issues and had been self harming. These friends are kind, super supportive and have done wonders for her state of mind.

So this morning I check her tracker. She only got home at midnight! I'm furious about this but at least they were travelling in a big group (6 girls). However the worst thing is that they then went out again at 2.30 to the McDonalds at the end of the road whilst the mother slept on a different floor. They got home at 3.00am.
I'm so angry I don't know what to do with myself. DD has admitted it all, not lied or made excuses, apologised and said she knew it was a bad choice but she didn't want to be the only one not going. She's begging me not to tell friends mum.

I'm thinking no more sleepovers with friends and limiting her interactions with them as I need to keep her safe. However we've only just been confident enough in her mental health to return the sharp knives back to the kitchen and these girls are a big reason why. And they are nice girls. They have been kind and inclusive and they are clever and play sport and participate in life- they are just allowed more freedom than I'm comfortable with.

Dd upstairs sobbing. Please no one tell me to ban her from seeing them entirely until you've gone round your house removing all the sharp objects because your daughter is so miserable.

I just have no idea how to handle it.

I've made it clear how upset and angry I am. I've explained why. Now what?

I'm not sure there is a 'now what'. You want to keep her safe, but she was self harming and it sounds as if her friends are doing a good job of keeping her safe from this. She was in a group - I wonder whether now is the time to consider your boundaries with regard to what is 'safe'?

It’s a tough one because what would you have her do? Leave the group at 10pm and home by herself?

Did you not do this kind of thing growing up?
I’m not excusing it and I would be livid myself but I don’t think I’d punish her.
Just let her know why you’re upset.

I think you need to ease up a little bit.

Being able to track her and her knowing you can just put pressure on her

In my house we have a deal. She tells the truth and whilst there might be a consequence there is no anger.

Sit down and talk to her. Tell her that whilst she might feel invincible now and be sure that your rules are stupid, they are for her safety. Tell her next time something like this comes up, she will need to decide that her safety is more important than keeping up with friends. That true friends won’t hate her for being herself.

Under your circumstances I think I’d tell her that this is her free fuck up card being used. If she learns from it and doesn’t make the same fuck up, no more said. She needs to know that she can come to you when she fucks up. That’s important especially with her MH.

I think you need to loosen your reins. She seems to be enjoying life and hasn't acted poorly. None one wants to be the kid that stays home while everyone else gets some fast food. If these friends are helping her, let her be.

Perhaps ask her to tell her friends that you found out and are agreeing not to tell the other Mum on the proviso that they all observe your rules in future. Explain to her that you think they are nice girls and you don’t want to discourage her from hanging out with them. This is their chance to show you they can be trusted. I don’t think she should be punished as such giving that she has been honest with you as long as she can help you figure out how to convince you that this won’t happen again.

I don't think I would punish her, she's obviously already upset. I'd explain to her that she put herself in danger and that has upset you. We all do stupid things but having a kind and supportive friendship group as a teenager is invaluable.

Plus it’s exactly what we all did when we were kids. Keeping your communication channel open is more important than a punishment here.

I think you need to stop tracking her. Assuming that she doesn't now turn off her tracker or "accidently" start leaving her phone behind to stop you herself.

There was a group of them and she was safe. She would almost certainly have been less safe if she'd left the group and followed your instructions. If you're going to insist on more stringent rules than her friends, then you need to make sure that friend's parent is aware so they can enforce them too.

I think you need to take a step back no staying out till midnight isn't ideal but I think having a sensible word is going to benefit her more than a punishment she was with her friends have a tut if you like but don't give her a punishment.

I think you need to stop tracking her phone, to be honest - or at least, to stop reacting to information you find out about while tracking. It's massively intrusive.

You trusted DD to go on a sleepover. A sleepover, by definition, doesn't have a curfew. She made some bad decisions but she stuck with the group. Going back out to MacDonalds at 230 is not the best move, but what harm was going to come to them? Were all 6 of them going to be abducted? They probably saw enough of the seedy side of life to help them make better choices in future, to be honest!

Call her down, give her a hug, say you're sorry for going off on one but you thought she made some really bad decisions. Talk about her POV - was staying with the group a better or worse decision than coming home alone, for example? You might actually be surprised about the risk assessment she made at the time! Let her know you trust her and that if she feels out of her depth she can call you and you will fix it. But for god's sake, loosen the reins a little.

She knows it was a bad call, help her with strategies next time. She can just tell her mates you track her and get a bit of wiggle room. That way. She could have just left her phone at her friends - she probably will next time if you don’t talk properly.

Is she year ten? If so I wouldn’t be banning sleep overs just talk to her. In a group, generally she will be fine. They went to a local macDonalds not to house party hosted by strangers. Confidence and esteem comes from managing these things - how wonderful that she was able to be honest with you. I would go and get a hit chocolate somewhere together - share your fears and ask her what she is comfortable with and plan together on what is reasonable.

I think it is REALLY hard at 14 to be the only one saying "can we go now please? We need to be back for 9.30 or my mum will tell me off" and if she had said that, and they laughed and refused should she split off and wander around London alone?

The going out to McDonald's is easier to get out of perhaps by saying she feels unwell or similar.

I would suggest that she struggles to assert herself within this group which is completely normal and doesn't suggest bullying or anything similar.

Given her mh, I don't think I'd be furious with her, but I'd try to build her up so she feels she can say "no thanks" or "oh god I've had a text from mum and I've got to bail" and she can then text you a code word so you'll pick her up?

Sorry, please explain, it really sounds like mcd’s at 0230 is a kind of cool thing to do at 14. staffed safe spot, with a group. Especially if it was not far.
I’d use it as a teaching opportunity, as her if she felt safe, who or what situations they might have encountered.
Rather than suggesting she made a bad decision I’d be building her up.

Ok. Some good advice here. I am really upset that she put herself at risk and have explained that to her. I won't tell the other girls parents as this would cause trouble for her.

I had thought I had flexed my boundaries as much as I was able. I wasn't loving her travelling back to her friends house in the dark at 10 on a Saturday night in central London but i sucked it up as there was a big group of them. Midnight is surely too late though for 14 year olds to be out?

And sneaking out at 2.30am because they were peckish is madness. It's not safe.

I think rather than punishing your DD, you need to seek some sort of support for your anxiety and need to control her. You might well find she is much happier and settled if you back off a lot.

Look at it from this point of view - in a group of six children, you are the only parent to be so controlling and restrictive. You say yourself that these are nice girls so it’s not as if their parents are negligent or uncaring.

You sound a bit OTT. You can't insist she gets home by 9.30 if she's sleeping over elsewhere and therefore being supervised by other parent.

If that parent is happy with midnight and the girls stick together in a group then she's not done anything wrong in my mind.

Even if she wasn't sleeping over ... One of the most important rules in our house is that you never leave anyone by themselves, and that it's better for you to be late for curfew than to head off by yourself (subject to letting us know etc).

Her mental health will suffer further if your unnecessarily harsh rules mean she can't hang out with her friends or they stop asking her because she's never allowed to do stuff.

The sneaking out is not great but if it was McDonalds actually on the same road then sounds like not much harm could have been done.

Cut her some slack, and help develop sensible guidelines for keeping safe rather than rigid overly harsh rules.

In under two years' time she could move out and live on her own if she wanted. Long chat about safety, sticking together etc, then a "minor" punishment, ie 1 week grounding, docked allowance if she gets one, and that should be for not telling you until you checked her tracker.

She probably felt that she was caught between breaking your rules and looking silly in front of her new friends. If they're allowed to do things and she's not. Suggest no punishment, her tears etc suggest she's upset enough. You need to focus on the importance of her being honest, which she has done, explaining the reasons you are uncomfortable with her being out late - so that it turns to her not wanting to be out late without adults because she understands how risky it is, as opposed to her wanting to please you.

Honestly, the sneaking out at 230 thing is madness from our point of view, but I bet they thought it was hilarious. It's the equivalent of a midnight feast but with hot chips. I would take a dim view of that and talk about it from the point of view of breaking the trust of the adult in charge, but equally I wouldn't punish her for it.

With the 10pm thing - as a pp said, it's really hard to be the only one saying 'I need to go' and you do need to take into account that being in a group at midnight is safer than being on your own at 10pm. Stick with your pals is really my number 1 rule for DS and something I would actually put a rocket up him for breaking.

I'd have a much bigger issue with them going back out at 2/3am. Does she appreciate why that concerns you?

Were all 6 of them going to be abducted?

Probably not. But all it takes is for one or two of them to get separated or lag behind. Or to come up against another group of people with less cheerful thoughts than grabbing some food.

It's naive to think being in a group makes you invincible.

I actually think the mum who was supervising the sleepover needs to know as it is a safeguarding issue.
Imagine if you were that mother and another mother knew but didn't tell you.

sneaking out at 2.30am because they were peckish is madness. It's not safe.

In a group? Of course it's safe. Barking mad, yes, but she's 14. It's what they do.

You want to protect her and that's normal. The phone tracking I agree with. Keep doing it but don't react to what you find. She has to be able to feel that she can talk to you about anything and from what you've said she is open and honest with you just now. Make sure that keeps going. That's great.

She's growing up and needs a bit more freedom. 9.30 is early. Thankfully her friends seem nice, supportive and behave.

As you do already keep talking and give her advise on how to stay safe.

You're a great mother 👍🏻😁

Tracking her phone is inappropriate. It means she will never trust. All she has to do is leave the phone on her bed, which incidentally would only make her more vulnerable.

Going for McDonalds at 2:30am with a group of friends in London is hardly dangerous. You need to unclench.