Is my child racist?! I don’t know what to do!

[Namechangefour]

Before I begin, I should say: I’m mixed race though look very white.

I was telling my my 5-year-old that I am going to look for someone to look after him after-school one day a week from next term. And he said, “Fine but please can you not choose anyone black?” I drilled this down and down and down and he meant what he said. Not someone black.

I said “Why?”

And he said “I don’t know.”

I said, “You know grandma was black?” (He never met her, she died before he was born).

And he said, “I know, but I don’t want you to choose anyone black.”

I said, “You know mummy is half black?”

And he said, “I know, but please don’t choose anyone black.”

I had absolutely no idea what to say. I remember reading once that you shouldn’t shame children for saying things like that, and we were in a cafe at the time, so all I said was, “You know what you said isn’t good, right?”

And he said, “I don’t know all the things yet!”

I didn’t want to get into it (mostly because I didn’t want to get it wrong) so I said we’d talk about it later.

But I am still totally unable to think what to say. I’m heartbroken. Completely and utterly heartbroken.

Can someone give me some advice? I don’t know what to do! And I don’t know why he’s saying things like that! We live somewhere pretty multicultural in london, though his school is quite cringe-worthily white and middle class.

I am governor of a C of E school. We do NOT discriminate on the basis of religion!

BertrandRussell
I think the proper response to this, the one usually used by those unwilling to listen is “Ooh, touched a nerve, have I?”

I think the proper translation of this, the one you make up in your head when people won't play your game, is that "unwilling to listen" means "unwilling to accept what I am telling you".

Your posts reek of it. You command others to "listen" but you never listen to anyone else. I recognise your username and before I joined MN I remember your posts as being particularly unpleasant, goady and deaf.

How do other countries at a similar level to the UK deal with school admissions? As far as I recall in the US all schools are non denominational and if you want to send your child to a school of your religion then you have to pay - some religions groups have assistance for poorer families.
Do other countries have such self-loathing of their middle classes as we appear to do here?

TatianaLarina
You’re not seriously suggesting that people give up a religion they believe in, that is the foundation of their culture, for one they don’t?

I am suggesting that if you are moaning that a Church school which only lets in Church-goers (which is what earlier posters said was their problem) won't allow your non-Church going child in, then you quite rightly have three options:

1. become a Church goer
2. find another school
3. create your own school

If the priority of your moans is getting you child into a Church school, then you should adapt, not the school. If that means changing religion, then do it. It is all your choice. There is absolutely nothing inherent, of fundamental about your belief system over any other. 100% choice.

“I am governor of a C of E school. We do NOT discriminate on the basis of religion!”

Is there a faith criterion in your admissions policy?

If that means changing religion, then do it. It is all your choice. There is absolutely nothing inherent, of fundamental about your belief system over any other. 100% choice.

Shows how little understanding you have of different cultures.

(I’m an atheist, this isn’t about me).

Shows how little understanding you have of different cultures.
How does it, precisely?

Why don’t you go and read up on them yourself, rather than expecting me to waste time I don’t have explaining. It’s not my problem.

What @Devereaux1 is conveniently ignoring is if the barriers to making a choice, or the effort required to make that choice, are on average greater for those of some races than those of others, then the system creating that choice is racist.

The state-funded faith school system is already openly discriminatory. It’s state-funded religious discrimination against children. Lovely. We add an overlay of racial and income discrimination on top of that because of the composition of the RC and CofE faiths.

It’s not about the individuals and what they should be willing to do to access the best parts of the system. The question is whether you support a system that is set up to be discriminatory, including racially semi-segregated schools, or whether you’d like access to that service to be more equal and for schools to reflect their local communities better.

(I’d be in favour of churches being able to have faith places based on the amount of cash they put in. Remind me how much that is again?)

TatianaLarina You don't know why then? You just make some random claim that other people have "little understanding" something because they have a different view than you? Are you able to accept the possibility that other people understand something very well and come to a different conclusion from you?

As I do for you. Surely you could tell me exactly what it is I am not understanding? Otherwise how can you make the appraisal I have so little of it? What have I missed?

He's not racist, I think he's possibly just 'not aware' of different races?
Has he heard anything on the news? Etc?
Theres always talk of gangs and stuff on the news at the moment, perhaps he's just picked up on some negativity?
He's certainly not racist. My DD4 was colouring a picture the other week and afterwards came to show me - it was a princess type scenario anyway, the princess had a black face and the usual coloured dress, background etc. I said ' oh well done babe, that's great colouring' she replied with 'I did the girl with a black face because i was bored of colouring peach faces'

I mean what do you reply do that? Aside from the usual 'well done, it's lovely' etc.
I've just put it down to her starting reception year and there only being one black girl in her class, I think she is more curious definitely not racist. We are the same live in an area where there isn't much diversity and I think she's curious.

Your son isn't racist. He's just 5.

Ah, Devereux the King of Sealions. How we (haven't) missed you on this thread.

If the priority of your moans is getting you child into a Church school, then you should adapt, not the school. If that means changing religion, then do it. It is all your choice. There is absolutely nothing inherent, of fundamental about your belief system over any other. 100% choice.

Can you explain why you think the school shouldn’t adapt, given that it’s agreed to provide a state service, paid for by taxpayers?

Would you be ok with a GP surgery that gives the appointments to CofE members before they’re available to anyone else?

JassyRadlett

What @Devereaux1 is conveniently ignoring is if the barriers to making a choice, or the effort required to make that choice, are on average greater for those of some races than those of others, then the system creating that choice is racist.

Oh my, is this a joke post? The system is racist because someone might find it harder than others to make a choice? Wow.

Choice is your responsibility, not the system. If you are an adult and find it harder to make that choice because of a previous choice you have made, say you have chosen to follow a different religion, that difficulty in switching is created by you, nobody else. You live with the consequences of your choice.

What I find particularly hilarious is that all these non-Church going people want to go to Church-going schools and seem oblivious to the reasons why these apparently white-majority, Christianity-religion Church schools are so good in the first place.

Oh my, is this a joke post? The system is racist because someone might find it harder than others to make a choice? Wow.

The system is racist because it is set up in a way that gives people of some races a better chance of accessing the full range of services, yes.

This stuff isn’t hard.

‘Do people of all races and incomes have the same access to universal state-funded services?’

If the answer is no, then the system is inherently racist.

What I find particularly hilarious is that all these non-Church going people want to go to Church-going schools and seem oblivious to the reasons why these apparently white-majority, Christianity-religion Church schools are so good in the first place.

They are ‘good’ (or perceived to be better and get better results) only when they are able to select their intake. Like all other schools with a selective intake, they end up with a disproportionately well-off cohort because that’s the impact of faith selection, academic selection, house price selection, take your pick.

When faith schools aren’t oversubscribed and have a cohort that reflects the local community their performance is average.

I’m a person with a child at a faith school despite really not wanting him to be at a faith school. I can’t afford private for both kids, so this is my only option. Choice in the education system is a total myth.

Schools which select- either overly or covertly- are by definition “better” than schools that don’t. Anything which requires to jump through a hoop, whether it’s baptising your baby before 3 months or learning to juggle is going to favour organised, involved parents who understand the system, have time and energy to find out about the system, and the confidence to engage with it. Who, in this country are more likely, while not exclusively, to be middle class people. Who are more likely, while not exclusively, to be white.

(No doubt @Devereux1 will criticise my poor choices in not being born 10 years earlier to get on the property ladder sooner so I could have bought one of the £1.5 million houses that guarantee you entry to the local community schools back when they were affordable...)

The frustrating thing is that this stuff is provable with actual facts. In order to not get it you have to refuse to look at the data.

Bert, I’m actually enjoying that DS1’s school provides a really nice case study for that.

In the Dark Years after it got its Requires Improvement Ofsted and the dutifully churchgoing parents of preschoolers suddenly decided church school wasn’t so important for them after all, the school was much less oversubscribed and ended up with a much more representative intake for where we live.

As you watch those kids go through the school you can see the sudden impact on the results from when it was able to be less selective about who it took.

Do people of all races and incomes have the same access to universal state-funded services?

Give me a specific example of how a black/asian person does not have the same access to a state funded service please.

I’m a person with a child at a faith school despite really not wanting him to be at a faith school

You have made a deliberate choice to send your child to a faith school because it is comparable to being at a private school. That was your choice and yet you complain you don’t want him to be at the faith school? Then send him to the local non faith school.

Lol Jks don’t hurt me fellow mummies

Not funny. Not even a little bit.

Ok! Here’s an example:

Does my child have an equal chance of getting into my local state school as my neighbour’s kid. His parents are white British and follow their traditional religion, Christianity. We’re of Indian descent and follow our traditional religion - we’re Sikh. The local state school is CofE and prioritises children of Christians. It’s fully state-funded.

Answer: obviously not. We’ve been offered a school a mile and a half away. It’s not great but it’s the only option available to us because there’s a shortage of school places in the borough. The neighbour’s kid will go to the school down the road, a short walk away.