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Is my child racist?! I don’t know what to do!

357 replies

Namechangefour · 17/12/2019 19:59

Before I begin, I should say: I’m mixed race though look very white.

I was telling my my 5-year-old that I am going to look for someone to look after him after-school one day a week from next term. And he said, “Fine but please can you not choose anyone black?” I drilled this down and down and down and he meant what he said. Not someone black.

I said “Why?”

And he said “I don’t know.”

I said, “You know grandma was black?” (He never met her, she died before he was born).

And he said, “I know, but I don’t want you to choose anyone black.”

I said, “You know mummy is half black?”

And he said, “I know, but please don’t choose anyone black.”

I had absolutely no idea what to say. I remember reading once that you shouldn’t shame children for saying things like that, and we were in a cafe at the time, so all I said was, “You know what you said isn’t good, right?”

And he said, “I don’t know all the things yet!”

I didn’t want to get into it (mostly because I didn’t want to get it wrong) so I said we’d talk about it later.

But I am still totally unable to think what to say. I’m heartbroken. Completely and utterly heartbroken.

Can someone give me some advice? I don’t know what to do! And I don’t know why he’s saying things like that! We live somewhere pretty multicultural in london, though his school is quite cringe-worthily white and middle class.

OP posts:
JassyRadlett · 18/12/2019 15:28

So a fully comprehensive state school is doing this is it? Show me where a state school will only take rich white children from it's admissions criteria? There is not one in the country that does this.

It does not have to be direct discrimination for a policy to have a discriminatory effect.

No school has as its admissions criteria ‘we prioritise wealthy kids’. But if its admission criteria are ‘how close do you live to the school’ it has that potential direct effect, with wider indirect impacts.

OP’s child’s school is disproportionately white and middle class for its community. That is because the admissions system has that impact, indirectly, by enabling richer (disproportionately white - ONS stats) parents to get priority by paying for more expensive housing.

We segregate by parental income (via house prices) which has the indirect effect of indirectly segregating by class, by parental educational attainment and by race (based on ONS income data). We segregate directly by parental religious attendance, which has the same indirect effects. The latter exacerbates the impact of the former by distorting geographical catchments.

If we don’t want schools that are indirectly segregated by race, class and faith we need a different admissions system. The one we have now does lead to these things, which you can partly see through FSM and EAL data.

BertrandRussell · 18/12/2019 15:41

It’s so depressing to have yet another thread insisting that the playing field is perfectly level and even if it isn’t them’s the breaks....

drspouse · 18/12/2019 15:43

I know, it seems Devereaux1 thinks it's just as easy to pass the entrance exam without a tutor and likewise if you don't know enough about the system, tough.

ReanimatedSGB · 18/12/2019 15:52

And is it mandatory now that any thread about racism has to include a whole lot of me-railing about 'reverse racism' or is it just that we have a crop of white-fragility sealions at the moment?

AdorableMisfit · 18/12/2019 15:52

I haven't had time to read the full thread but I wonder if he's had a specific experience that's made him feel negatively about black people? My daughter once told me she didn't like black people and when we talked about it, it turned out that her only black classmate (she was in a very white middle class school) had been mean to her and she had generalised that to "all black people are mean". She does have ASD so is particularly prone to making this sort of generalisation. We got over it by talking about how everyone's different and just because someone with blue eyes is mean it doesn't mean all blue eyed people are, etc. Interestingly, we now live in South Africa and she goes to a school where 90% of the pupils are black, and she's decided that black people are fine, but she dislikes anyone who wears pink whatever their skin colour....

Aridane · 18/12/2019 16:41

@drspouse - not just that (easy to pass entrance exams without a tutor ) but BAME Students at a positive advantage Because of all these special programmes for the, and drawn to their attention unlike their under privileged white fellow pupils

There are plenty of initiatives for BAME pupils which alert them to all the opportunities and specialist programmes available to them, whereas white pupils who are not eligible for these programmes are not informed of such opportunities.

drspouse · 18/12/2019 17:10

There are plenty of initiatives for BAME pupils which alert them to all the opportunities and specialist programmes available to them

Are there? My DD is BAME and nobody has alerted us to any such programmes.

We also have a grammar school and though she's only in Y1, we've never heard of any special opportunities for her or for her BAME friends who are older, either in relation to grammar school, or anything else, academic or non academic.

And I guess if you are also saying it's just as easy to pass entrance exams without a tutor, what are the Y3 and Y4 parents I know who are paying for a tutor spending their money on? Babysitting?

Aridane · 18/12/2019 17:14

@drspouse

I was actually being heavily sarcastic about the nonsense spouted by @Devereux1, quoting it, not agreeing with it.

PreseaCombatir · 18/12/2019 17:35

The local catholic school to me is very non-white. It is mainly made up of west Africans and Filipinos.
Not only white people are Christians you know 🙄

mousemousse · 18/12/2019 17:40

I found Julia Donaldson's new book - the smeds and smoos - quite good for explaining that our brains sometimes make silly assumptions about people based on the colour of their skin but it isnt accurate so it's important we always look for how people are as individuals and treat everyone equally and fairly. The book is basically Romeo and Juliet without the dying bit

Nonnymum · 18/12/2019 17:50

I think you just need to tell him that the colour of a person's skin is not important and just like some people are tall and some small and people have different hair and eye colour some have different skin colour but it doesn't say anyhing about the person. And that you will choose the best childminder there is whatever the colour of their skin, hair, eyes etc. Then I would aks him if anyone at school has said anything about skin colour. Also if you don't have them already I would get some books showing people of all races and colours.

drspouse · 18/12/2019 18:02

Sorry @Aridane!

Walkaround · 18/12/2019 18:13

@Aridane - it's really not a good idea to randomly quote other people's comments and then make a cryptic comment of your own which, in the absence of any tone of voice is frankly extremely confusing! Better just to express your own opinions.

JassyRadlett · 18/12/2019 18:14

The local catholic school to me is very non-white. It is mainly made up of west Africans and Filipinos. Not only white people are Christians you know.

No one said they were. 🙄

Why do we have to explain the concepts of proportion, outliers and statistics v anecdote on all threads like this?

KittyMarmalade · 18/12/2019 18:23

I think your statement his school is quite cringe-worthily white and middle class is equally strange

I want to defend the OP for this statement. It's really, really unusual for any school in London to be like this (perhaps MNetters from other parts of the country wouldn't necessarily understand this - most primary classes here are at least half, if not 2/3 (or even more) of the children are not from a white-British background). I think she means that she doesn't see a school like this as an optimal state of affairs. And it's not, for the very reason she's posting.

CurlyTwirlyTwos · 18/12/2019 18:57

🙋‍♀️ Mixed race mum here with a blond, blue eyed child.

I left London before my child was born and live in a very white, middle class town, which not diverse at all. My child fits right in!

Yes - I find this is racist OP, and you must address this ASAP. He is obviously expressing the subtle bias that people pick up in childhood. The type of people who obviously have no contact with other cultures. This is how casual racism starts. If my child said this - it would make me sick to my stomach.

For my child - I make sure she sees and plays her (non-white) cousins regularly (she adores them) and I also regularly visit this side of the family (even though it's easy sometimes, distance to travel etc etc). It's important to me that she knows her heritage even though she 'looks' nothing like it.

Ensuring books have BAME characters, and all dolls/barbies/figures I are also non-white (not easy for a boy). I was conscious having positive BAME contact and role models since birth.

It sounds simplistic, positive role models. I do NOT think he is too young to talk about racism in an age appropriate context. It is wrong that he said this and you have to explain to him why.

Then reiterate it. People shy away from racism, please don't ignore it. I've not read the thread suggested but I intend to. I'm always on the look out for more ideas!

Good luck OP

rhubarbcrumbles · 18/12/2019 19:15

Or if the school is so popular that it only admits from the 3 streets around it and all those houses have been bought up by middle class white families.

What has that got to do with the school? At our local hospital many of the consultants are not white, DBro works for one of them, many of them send their children to private school or live in the expensive houses near the over-subscribed secondary school. They seem to have managed despite racism.

It would also be harder to get in to this church school if you were Pentecostal or Seventh Day Adventist (two fairly Black denominations) as CofE gets more points.

Presumably it is a C of E school so it's hardly unreasonable for the C of E church which is funding a significant portion of the school to give priority to C of E members. The majority of white people are not members of the C of E so would most likely be lower down the list than the Pentecostal or SDA members.

Picking a random C of E secondary school their criteria are

a) EHCP naming the school as where the child needs to go to
b) looked after/previously looked after children
c) children with a specific educational/social need to go to the school d) siblings of existing pupils
e) C of E regular worship
f) regular worship in other Christian church
g) children at a C of E primary
h) active members/participants in activities of a non-Christian faith
i) anybody who wants a church education for their child
j) everybody else

so a white middle class, atheist family would stand no more chance than anybody from a different background from getting a place. No mention is made of distance so the issue of white middle class expensive houses doesn't apply.

drspouse · 18/12/2019 19:40

A school that's in a mixed area but only admits white children has a problem.
The school near me could change its criteria to admit only a proportion of CofE children (like a local CofE primary), or all comers, or those of an Abrahamic faith.
A school in a less heavily Muslim area but with majority Black churches could admit all Christians equally.
A school that has a tiny White catchment area could have a feeder school system that's more diverse.
It's easily done.

rhubarbcrumbles · 18/12/2019 19:59

The school near me could change its criteria to admit only a proportion of CofE children

Surely now that so few of the population go to church it's highly unlikely that a school would be full with practising church goers?

JassyRadlett · 18/12/2019 20:03

Presumably it is a C of E school so it's hardly unreasonable for the C of E church which is funding a significant portion of the school to give priority to C of E members.

What proportion is that again? None of the admin costs and mostly none, and no more than 10%, of the capital costs?

Your random CofE school will have a criteria (probably within the borough admissions policy or elsewhere within their own) for determining priority within each category if that category is the point of oversubscription.

Here’s wording from a local CofE school admissions policy:

In the event that two or more applicants have equal right to a place under any of the above criteria, the Governing Body will apply the subsequent criteria in order of priority to these applicants. If despite this applicant are still tied, then the governors will draw lots to decide between applicants.

(The final criteria for this school is straight line distance to the school.)

JassyRadlett · 18/12/2019 20:11

Surely now that so few of the population go to church it's highly unlikely that a school would be full with practising church goers?

It’s amazing how many committed and savvy parents find the time to attend church for just slightly longer than the admissions policy requires along with their pre-school children.

When the local CofE primary got a poor Ofsted result church attendance collapsed and they had to combine two of the Sunday School classes.

Plus, siblings are almost always higher priority in admissions than children of churchgoers, so the younger siblings of children admitted under the faith criteria are subsequently admitted under the sibling one. And of course these kids can live some distance away so it’s not just proportion of local kids.

You do still generally get a fair few kids in on distance. House prices near the school align with the average catchment size for this.

The local Catholic schools are 100% filled with the sibling and religious criteria.

GrumpyHoonMain · 18/12/2019 20:14

I’m Indian and have family who are a variety of colours. Some pass for white while others look Middle Eastern, black, and others look like the Salaam Bombay stereotype of Indians. All of my white passing DN have made similar comments at some point during nursery — has nothing to do with the school (they live and go to school in a part of the UK where non-whites are the majority) and everything to do with Disney / the media. For example telling other darker skinned girls they couldn’t be a princess because they’re brown.

drspouse · 18/12/2019 20:29

It’s amazing how many committed and savvy parents find the time to attend church for just slightly longer than the admissions policy requires
Indeed it is. The least demanding of the local churches is full to bursting with families who have children in years 3-5.

PreseaCombatir · 18/12/2019 22:04

No one said they were 🙄

Why do we have to explain the concepts of proportion, outliers and statistics v anecdote on all threads like this?

Erm, nothing to do with outliers, or concertos of proportion, I was responding to this...

Or if there are hoops to jump through that are harder for poorer families and non-white families (entrance exam, church attendance ...

Most Christians in the world are non white. Why on earth would it be harder for a non-white person to attend church?!?

Nothing to do with proportionality, or anecdote vs statistics...

drspouse · 18/12/2019 22:15

Did you read the bit where I said in my area most BAME families are Muslim?