Is my child racist?! I don’t know what to do!

[Namechangefour]

Before I begin, I should say: I’m mixed race though look very white.

I was telling my my 5-year-old that I am going to look for someone to look after him after-school one day a week from next term. And he said, “Fine but please can you not choose anyone black?” I drilled this down and down and down and he meant what he said. Not someone black.

I said “Why?”

And he said “I don’t know.”

I said, “You know grandma was black?” (He never met her, she died before he was born).

And he said, “I know, but I don’t want you to choose anyone black.”

I said, “You know mummy is half black?”

And he said, “I know, but please don’t choose anyone black.”

I had absolutely no idea what to say. I remember reading once that you shouldn’t shame children for saying things like that, and we were in a cafe at the time, so all I said was, “You know what you said isn’t good, right?”

And he said, “I don’t know all the things yet!”

I didn’t want to get into it (mostly because I didn’t want to get it wrong) so I said we’d talk about it later.

But I am still totally unable to think what to say. I’m heartbroken. Completely and utterly heartbroken.

Can someone give me some advice? I don’t know what to do! And I don’t know why he’s saying things like that! We live somewhere pretty multicultural in london, though his school is quite cringe-worthily white and middle class.

Time for this link again!

Sympathies to you, OP. Please don't let the fragile whites on this thread get to you. As PP have said, I doubt a child that young is really racist, he's just trying to make sense of the world and his place in it, and the best thing to do is keep talking and keep listening - and give him lots of examples in books and RL of diversity.
(I hadn't thought about it in years but I remember my DS at about 3/4 saying he didn't like people with black faces. I emphasised not being rude to anyone and that people are different, and by the time he was in reception he had friends of various ethnicities and, later, at about 8/9, we had a discussion about racism and he was utterly bewildered by the whole concept.)

Children are innately more biased towards people who look similar to them. It is more to do with instinct than an unkind judgement that they are superior. It is now your job to educate them.
You have not done anything wrong, your child isn't choosing to be racist. My child made a similar observation at that age. I was similarly concerned but children learn very quickly and take their lead from you so if you guide them and educate them, this natural bias will diminish. It didn't take my child long to stop thinking like that.

www.google.com/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/world/obamas-viral-tweet-is-wrong-research-shows-babies-are-totally-racist/amp

Ignore the twats calling you racist. They just don't understand the cringy nature of a middle class school in London.

@MrsTerryPratchett
Well said

Oh please, @rhubarbcrumbles. It is cringe-worthy for a state school to be disproportionately privileged compared to the community it sits in.

That's not a race issue, it goes way beyond that if you want to take that line; the teachers are better off than the people living in poverty nearby etc.

Disclaimer: I’m a white middle-class immigrant.

Why are you pointing out that you are white and middle class? Do you think that this makes your view any more valid than mine? It doesn't.

I suspect that in this white middle class bubble of a school in a diverse area, he will have been exposed to children being brought up by racists. That another child has said something learned from their parent that has created a link where black = bad. He can't articulate this, probably subconsciously knows this to be wrong, but at 5, isn't equipped to explain it. It doesn't mean he is a racist, just that someone has said something to confuse him.

He is 5. He is too young to be racist to the core

He is too young to be racist at all!

OP you told him it wasn't a nice thing to say and he said he didn't know everything yet. I'd move on. It may well not happen again.

The Highland clearances were carried out by other scots. I've heard that SNP bullshit spouted a few times lately. Please stop it.

Why don't you sit down with him and just discuss what he meant. Of course he's not racist. Just sit down and ask him what his thinking is behind his statement.

I also have a mixed heritage background. Yet I remember being very afraid of black people as a very young child (4/5). I only knew one black person back then, the mother of other children at a dance class. She was very angry, very loud, was always furious about where her children stood in class, which certificates they were being put forward for and so on. She was very big, used to push and shove other people, and I remember that as a little 4/5 year old, she terrified me, even though I really liked her children and happily played and danced with them.

If anyone had said to me that my babysitter would be a black adult, I'd have probably have said no thank you. It's the simple way of thinking of a young child, to look for things recognisable to identify things and people we want to be near, or far from, and perhaps your child is doing something similar?

Racism in law is less favourable treatment on grounds of colour, race, or ethnic or national origins. Whilst the OP is clearly not racist, I find it a bit annoying when people claim racism, rather than institutional racism, is not something white people ever suffer from. Yes of course individual racism is on an entirely different scale to institutional racism, but every race and ethnicity is capable of despicable attitudes and behaviours towards other races, it's just a question of whether a racist person, group or society has the opportunity to demonstrate this through less favourable treatment or not. Individual racism can very much exist in both directions in the same country. Comments about white girls being slutty or trashy are examples of racist attitudes being expressed, for example. White Irish people well know what racism feels like, despite the colour of their skin. Genocide, the ultimate expression of racism, has not been limited in history to white people trying to eliminate other racial or ethnic groups.

Also seeing a lot of this 'reverse racism doesnt exist' thing lately. What they mean is systematic or structural racism. A short look into europe will disavow you of the idea that inter ethnic racism doent exist.

Id maybe use it as a chance to teach him some black history. Its being uncovered everywhere now- just how many black people there were in britains history, but to a 5 year old it must be confusing as to where they originate. Walter Tull was always one of my heroes fo instance

Also, what do you think he would say if you did get a black minder?

Genocide, the ultimate expression of racism, has not been limited in history to white people trying to eliminate other racial or ethnic groups

Tell that to the people of Rwanda

Or the people of Cambodia

Yes, small children - even babies - can be racist. Or at least show unconscious bias to ethnicities that look like their parents. The article @Novembernickname references illustrates this well

That's not a race issue, it goes way beyond that if you want to take that line; the teachers are better off than the people living in poverty nearby etc.

Of course it’s a race issue, and a class issue, if children of less privileged races and classes are not able to access good local schools in their community. It is a race issue and a class issue if at a local state school doesn’t reflect the race and class of its community and the state education system is segregating rich white children away from their less privileged peers.

The teachers issue is a total red herring and I suspect you know that. Is it a surprise that graduate jobs will be significantly better paid than average in areas with a low level of graduates? No. Would it be nice if it was more evenly spread? Yes. Is it the same issue as some children not having the same access to local public services than their more privileged neighbours? No.

Why are you pointing out that you are white and middle class? Do you think that this makes your view any more valid than mine? It doesn't.

Of course it doesn’t. I never said any such thing, and it’s ludicrous for you to suggest such a disgusting thing. It is however relevant when discussing privilege to acknowledge where we as individuals are coming from (if only to short-circuit the inevitable and tedious ‘you’re just jealous!’ bollocks so prevalent on these sorts of threads.) I’m a relatively privileged person on the basis of race and class. I benefit from this kind of discrimination. And I still think that it’s cringe-worthy - as are those trying to obfuscate the real issue here by trying to paint OP as a racist.

Is it a surprise that graduate jobs will be significantly better paid than average in areas with a low level of graduates?

that really isn't the case though is it? The best paid jobs (and the best schools!) are in London. Check out the London privilege.....

and the state education system is segregating rich white children away from their less privileged peers.

So a fully comprehensive state school is doing this is it? Show me where a state school will only take rich white children from it's admissions criteria? There is not one in the country that does this.

House prices may well be higher near good schools (and they are not all in London) but that is the housing economy which is led by consumer preferences and not the state education system.

I too don't understand this "segregation" claim.

How are comprehensives segregating white from black? It's not something I've ever experienced, observed or heard about outside MN.

@Teateaandmoretea you are comparing the wrong things.

@JassyRadlett is saying that in places with a low average income, teachers will be paid better than the parents of the kids in the school.

YOU are saying that teachers in London are paid more than teachers elsewhere in the country.
Both of these can be true.

@Devereux1 if the school is in a mainly white area... Or if there are hoops to jump through that are harder for poorer families and non-white families (entrance exam, church attendance - the latter impossible for Muslim families who also tend not to be white)... Or if the school is so popular that it only admits from the 3 streets around it and all those houses have been bought up by middle class white families.

In our area there are big differences in the ethnic mix of most of the schools. Among the secondary schools, the church comprehensive school that gets good results is much, much whiter than the other comprehensive school that doesn't. This is mainly down to most of the families locally who are not white, being Muslim.
It would also be harder to get in to this church school if you were Pentecostal or Seventh Day Adventist (two fairly Black denominations) as CofE gets more points.

Thanks for the examples drspouse.

I don't see how an entrance exam is harded for poorer or non-white families. It's the same exam, the material needs to be learned/the mindset needs to be able to critically think, some people can afford tutors I get that difference, but that's the same for every test in life. It's still up to the child to study and pass the exam, whatever their background.

As for church attendance - surely that's for church-attached schools? Surely it's logical to need to attend church to attend a church-attached school? I wouldn't expect Jewis, Muslims etc to apply in the first place. Nothing to do with race, but all to do with beliefs, surely?

The school only admitting from close streets round it, if they are all owned by one race, I get how that is segregation, but unless they are all expensive properties only affordable or available to white people, I don't see the segretation there. Aren't these houses equally available to anyone to purchase then? Aren't other white people left out who don't live there either?

Most families who are poorer don't have the resources to pay for a tutor. Some don't even know you can go in for the exam (nobody in their family ever has, or they are new to the country so don't even know about the system). Black families tend to be poorer than white families, and are more likely to be new to the country.

If you really can't see that you need to up your imagination a bit.

Likewise if you can't work out that people who have more money (and are more likely to be White) can afford better homes than those who have less money (and are less likely to be White).

Muslim families are much less likely to be White than non-Muslim families. Asking families to go to a specific, very White, church is a very good way to make sure your school is mainly white, and it's worked very well for the CofE secondary near me.

Most families who are poorer don't have the resources to pay for a tutor.
I recognise that. Generations of pupils passed entrance exams without tutors. Millions still do. Nobody of any race needs a tutor to pass an entrance exam.

Some don't even know you can go in for the exam (nobody in their family ever has, or they are new to the country so don't even know about the system).
Same for white/indigenous families, has been for generations. There are plenty of initiatives for BAME pupils which alert them to all the opportunities and specialist programmes available to them, whereas white pupils who are not eligible for these programmes are not informed of such opportunities.

Black families tend to be poorer than white families, and are more likely to be new to the country.
None of that makes the entrance exam harder.

If you really can't see that you need to up your imagination a bit.
My imagination's fine. I can question and not agree with you and still have a great imagination thanks.

Likewise if you can't work out that people who have more money (and are more likely to be White) can afford better homes than those who have less money (and are less likely to be White).
I don't think you read what I wrote, did you?

Muslim families are much less likely to be White than non-Muslim families.
So?

Asking families to go to a specific, very White, church is a very good way to make sure your school is mainly white, and it's worked very well for the CofE secondary near me.
Are you saying they are only asking white families to attend this Church school?