David Baddiels comment about Corbyn

[Minionoftheantichrist]

I’ve looked for a thread about this but can’t see one.
David Baddiel picked up that on the leaders debate Corbyn pronounced Epstein in a way that made it sound more Jewish ie Epshteen as opposed to Epsteen. He said every Jew will have noticed this and that it’s another example of Corbyns antisemitism.

I’m Jewish. I’m no fan of Corbyn but really hadn’t noticed this and even now David Baddiel has pointed it out, am struggling to see this as an example of antisemitism. Am I missing something here? Is this antisemitic?

No, FromEden, he said "shtyne". The OP is wrong.

? I would say Epstine although Americans would say Epsteen. As with Polish names, I'd say Kaloffski, for instance but Americans would say Kal ow ski. And so on. Nobody has ever told me I'm being ist. I'm not. So I apologise for any offence, none intended, but I think this may be a little over sensitive.

Seeing as the Tapas bar in Croydon is owned and run by Spanish people, it would make a pleasant change for them to hear something other than the local accents mangling the pronunciation or pointing at that one.

I think Corbyn is an anti-semite, look how anti-semitic the party had become under him.

However in this case I feel he just pronounced a name the proper German way. I cringe every time it's wrongly pronounced tbh. It's EpSCHTINE and not EpSTEEN.

It's not steen vs stein that is the issue - its adding in a 'sh' sound so epshtyne rather than ep-stein.

Yes i would feel an idiot saying patatas bravas without a spanish accent. Moronic!

It may be that prononciation in Germany, it doesn't appear to be in the US and here is no suggestion that Jeffrey Epstein pronounced his name in the German way.

I'd likely say Epstyne because of Brian Epstein.

Or, as DP points out - as in Fron-ken-steen. A joke about the different pronunciations in a film written by a Jewish man, produced by a Jewish man, loved by many of all faiths and none.

the "sh" sound is completely normal in German pronunciation. Stein is a German word. It's a mistake I would have made as well.

Wasn’t Jeffrey Epstein of Jewish heritage therefore
Is it not correct to pronounce it the “Jewish” way?

Nothing anti Semitic about it - absolutely ridiculous!

Baddiel calling someone anti semetic? People in glass houses really shouldn’t throw stones..
oh and yes it was desperately scraping the barrel.

FFS Americans pronounce countries as eye-rack, eye -ran and Moscow as mos-COW. Does that make them right??? Anyone who has studied German knows that ei has an i sound. I have never understood antisemitism and never thought it but David baddiel is an over privileged bellend.

I’m a non practising Jew, I would pronounce it the same tbh. Not really seeing the big deal.

FFS Americans pronounce countries as eye-rack, eye -ran and Moscow as mos-COW. Does that make them right??? Anyone who has studied German knows that ei has an I sound

A surname is pronounced the way its owner pronounces its. There's no one right way.

Wasn’t Jeffrey Epstein of Jewish heritage therefore
Is it not correct to pronounce it the “Jewish” way?

Implying that you have a better grasp of how to pronounce a Jewish person's surname than they do is highly antisemitic.

There is no one correct pronunciation. Jews have anglicised their surnames for centuries to try to fit in and avoid antisemitism.

E.g. Luciana Berger - the original pronunciation in Germany would have been Burger, but her family pronounces it Ber-jer.

Pronounce it how the owner pronounces it.

So my maiden name was Davies and a lot of non Welsh people pronounced it daveys does that make them racist. This is so pathetic when there are terrible problems in the UK.

Are there not German names that aren't Jewish? I was happily reading Weinstein as Winestine, like Einstein the scientist, until I heard it pronounced Winesteen (which makes no sense), but then lots of American versions of names don't make sense compared to the original version.

The original German pronunciation of "Berger" is more like "bair-ger" than "burger"

And if someone saw it written down, and pronounced it "bair-ger" instead of "berjer", that would say nothing whatsoever about their position on Jews or antisemitism. FGS.

Mine too @30daysoflight.

It doesn't make them racist in itself, but if they had a history of making anti- welsh jokes I would certainly think the speaker was either thoughtless or a being bit of a twat by choosing to mispronounce my name in a way to make it sound more welsh.

Well, I've learnt something today. I have only read about the Weinstein scandal, so I've been pronouncing Harvey Weinstein as Harvey W-ine-Sh-tine all this time, on the assumption that it would have been partially anglicised. (Full German style would be Vine-sh-tine, but the W=English V sound doesn't survive well outside Germany, so I assumed that had been lost.) Didn't realise the whole thing had been anglicised!

In future folks when referring to someone not from the same culture as you I’d just say their first name and be done with it,

Forget surnames...I mean for fucks sake you might get it wrong and people will hate you because “you should know and mispronouncing my name is anti Semitic/racist/disrespectful etc etc etc”.

I mean how DARE I presume to know how a name is pronounced and horror of horrors get it wrong?

Let’s all get professionally offended and implode...meanwhile the country is going to shit and you are going to continue getting more of the same because you’re stupid enough to be distracted by someone mispronouncing a name.

In future folks when referring to someone not from the same culture as you I’d just say their first name and be done with it

Nope, if you're unsure, just ask them how they pronounce their surname and go with that.

And if it's someone you don't know but they are being talked about on the news, copy the pronunciation the newsreaders are using.

When I read the name I pronounce it 'Epshteen' in my head ... actually more like 'Epsh-tyne'.
Does this make me anti-semitic ?

And if someone saw it written down, and pronounced it "bair-ger" instead of "berjer", that would say nothing whatsoever about their position on Jews or antisemitism. FGS

Of course it wouldn't. I have never said that it would.

But telling a Jewish person who pronounces it Ber-jer that they are pronouncing their own name incorrectly would be antisemitic.

Many posters on this thread have implied that Ep-shtein is the only correct pronunciation, and that makes Jeremy a great friend to the Jews for using it. That is simply false.

A person's surname is pronounced how they pronounce it. There is nothing more to it than that.