David Baddiels comment about Corbyn

[Minionoftheantichrist]

I’ve looked for a thread about this but can’t see one.
David Baddiel picked up that on the leaders debate Corbyn pronounced Epstein in a way that made it sound more Jewish ie Epshteen as opposed to Epsteen. He said every Jew will have noticed this and that it’s another example of Corbyns antisemitism.

I’m Jewish. I’m no fan of Corbyn but really hadn’t noticed this and even now David Baddiel has pointed it out, am struggling to see this as an example of antisemitism. Am I missing something here? Is this antisemitic?

[CatInTheDaytime]

Duchess you have definitely helped me to have more of an understanding of what it's like for you. I'm not Jewish and I'm traditionally Labour, but will not vote Labour this time - the antisemitism was already one of the reasons why but there were some things I didn't know about Corbyn.

I do not think he will take power FWIW.

[bellinisurge]

Please don't use the term got.

[bellinisurge]

I mean "goy" but my phone didn't like it either.

[Womenwotlunch]

I am not a fan of JC. However, I think that DB is being ridiculous.
As another poster pointed out, JC is a linguist and is probably a bit of a pedant when it comes to speaking different languages.
He’s probably the type of person that ensure that he pronounces a complicated Greek or Nigerian name correctly

[DuchessMustard]

@bellinisurge it's what people do when they are pretending to be Jewish in order to tell Jewish people that our fears of antisemitism are 'pathetic'.

It's meant to make Jewish people look bad.

In nearly 40 years of living in the midst of a Jewish family or community I have never once heard anyone use the term.

I wonder what it is that @Lourake thinks is so 'pathetic' - the Jewish Labour Movement being unable to campaign for their own leader? The Jewish community begging our non-Jewish friends to recognise what's happening? The fear that the leader of the opposition being close friends with Holocaust deniers and blood libellers might not make Jewish people feel very comfortable in this country?

@CatInTheDaytime
@Skolkolet
Thank you both so much for your reassuring words of care and support. Does it also help you to understand when you see that, after the huge amount of information and background that has been provided, you get people like @Lourake literally calling us 'truly truly pathetic'. I hope at the very least it gives some indication of what we are up against.

[bellinisurge]

Thank you @DuchessMustard . It was used against my mother by some not very nice people. Pleasingly my dad and his big brother stepped in and stopped it being used against her again.

[DuchessMustard]

@TheQueef Duchess do you think it is a JC problem or a party problem? Is it the influx of Labour members of an old hate emerging? (I know that's a simplified q I'm interested in how it feels to you)

Thanks for asking. I believe that an antisemitic faction that used to be only a fringe part of the Labour party has taken over and become its mainstream . I don't think it's about JC specifically - I 100% believe he is an antisemite (and I personally know people like Trevor Philips who have spent 1-2-1 time with him and have been saying he is for years) but I don't believe he's the only one, or that the problem would disappear if he went away - at least not now - I think it's too late.

It's been piggybacked in on the back of anti-Israel movements, but a huge amount - the majority - of the rhetoric, imagery and propaganda being spread is straight out of Der Sturmer or 19th century European antisemitism. It's Jews as alien parasites, face sucking aliens, evil hook-nosed bankers running the world, even Christ-killers - as referenced directly by Laura sodding Pidcock the other day.

It is pretty much nakedly drawing on all of those- and they are the things that Corbyn loves - the books that blame all world wars on the Jews, the mural showing Jewish capitalists destroying the workers of the world, the image posted by Kayla Bibby with the star of David as a facesucking alien killing the Statue of Liberty. It's very, very old school racist material.

I think it's been getting worse and worse and worse as Jewish MPs and members, as well as non-Jewish moderates and good people, have been quite deliberately hounded out of the party. The party has become more and more totalitarian in its internal procedures, and the antisemitism has become more and more - not just tolerated but actively encouraged.

From 1998 (when I came of age) to 2015, I never voted for anyone except Labour. My parents were also both lifelong Labour voters. I'm now not sure if they will ever be a party I can vote for again, no matter what happens with JC specifically.

[DuchessMustard]

@bellinisurge I am sorry that happened to your mum. It is not a term in common usage and it's a completely bizarre way to speak - to write 'I am non goy' rather than what any normal person would write, which is 'I am Jewish'.

[bellinisurge]

@DuchessMustard , it was a very very long time ago and I have never heard it used myself.

[Overstating]

Thanks @DuchessMustard I know your posts must have been hard to write. I just want to let you know that you have been speaking with impact to me and I suspect I'm not the only one.

I have no idea who to vote for, it's very much going to be the 'least-worst' I think. But for all that my local Labour candidate is somewhat credible, your posts have completely affirmed for me that I cannot vote labour and live with my conscience. It isn't just a local issue. There is a national issue that I will not contribute to endorsing.

I'm hearing Jews tell us how afraid you are. Please know that there are some of us determined that the UK will be a safe country to be Jewish.

[bellinisurge]

Bloody hell, did Piddock say that?

[JewishHousehold]

@Bellinisurge

Beggars belief doesn’t it!

She says “please forgive them for they know not what they do” around 45s in reference to people who are detractors of the Labour Party, JC and their people...

[Halleli]

Bloody hell, did Piddock say that?

She said of Corbyn critics, ‘Forgive them, for they know not what they do.’

It would pass most people by, but it made me - and a lot of other Jewish people - extremely uncomfortable.

[derxa]

I'm watching BBC2 Politics prog now. A feature on the Jewish community in Leeds. A Jewish bakery which has a steel fence round it and security gate. I had no idea how bad it was out there
www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50491208
www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/labour-mp-fabian-hamilton-accused-of-failing-jewish-constituents-with-chris-williamson-silence-1.486515

[bellinisurge]

Piddock is an idiot.

[DuchessMustard]

@Overstating I'm hearing Jews tell us how afraid you are. Please know that there are some of us determined that the UK will be a safe country to be Jewish.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart, I am so glad that it is getting through to some people. I've always had faith in Britain until the past couple of years.

[Symptomless]

Jewish Chronicle offers some interesting opinion pieces from different sides of the argument wrt Corbyn and labour antisemitism if anyone is interested.

[CatInTheDaytime]

Does it also help you to understand when you see that, after the huge amount of information and background that has been provided, you get people like @Lourake literally calling us 'truly truly pathetic'.

Yes - I've been called pathetic on here (under a different name) for feminist statements, I see it a lot when someone's stance makes someone else uncomfortable and they don't want to go there or admit the problem. It's especially polarised with Corbyn because some people want him to be the answer to everything and guru-worship him, so they'll desperately try to slap down and ostracise critics - as has happened within the parliamentary party/HQ.

[TheQueef]

Thank you Duchess I'm the same as Catin lifelong Labour party member.
My understanding of anti Semites in Labour was pretty much minimised, a handful of extreme people.
I've found your posts very informative and it will change the way I look at our party, it's certainly flagged up the micro aggressive behaviour (I'm not minimising it it's just never enough to be blatant) it's horrible that you feel so overlooked and as a supporter I want you to know it's not the way I or any people I know think.
Imo you've informed quite a few people on this thread and your candidness (not sure that's a word) has helped.
Thank you again and as a member I'm sincerely sorry.

[Minionoftheantichrist]

Non goy 😮. Wow, I’ve not heard anyone use that nasty term since my DGFs day. Do you mean you are Jewishlourake? No one in my family and none of my Jewish friends would ever call people who aren’t Jewish, goyim. It’s a vile term that I last heard used by my late DGPs generation.

Derxa the only Jewish bakery in Leeds is 5 mins from me. It’s situated within the grounds of an orthodox synagogue, the driveway of which has always had a security gate and fencing around it as have all synagogues in the UK. This is a sad reflection of the risks of being Jewish but it’s certainly not a new thing. Over the years there have been various attacks by vandals of Jewish cemeteries and synagogues but as far as I know they are no more frequent than in the past.

The community here though is definitely scared witless by the thought of a labour government. My family have always been labour voters. There’s no way as much as I want to, that I can vote for them now though. I’m also very worried about the conservatives track record of Islamophobia. When it comes to attitudes to ethnic minorities in the uk, i have no confidence in any party.

[derxa]

Minion I had no idea about all of this

[Halleli]

The experience of a Jewish father and son today on the northern line...

mobile.twitter.com/scatatkins/status/1197894489291055104

[CallmeAngelina]

"Ei" in German is pronounced "eye" and "ie" is pronounced "ee."

[donquixotedelamancha]

"Ei" in German is pronounced "eye" and "ie" is pronounced "ee."

Thanks for clarifying. Now you've explained there is nothing else to discuss really. You'd imagine on a thread of 400ish messages someone might have mentioned German pronunciation already.