David Baddiels comment about Corbyn

[Minionoftheantichrist]

I’ve looked for a thread about this but can’t see one.
David Baddiel picked up that on the leaders debate Corbyn pronounced Epstein in a way that made it sound more Jewish ie Epshteen as opposed to Epsteen. He said every Jew will have noticed this and that it’s another example of Corbyns antisemitism.

I’m Jewish. I’m no fan of Corbyn but really hadn’t noticed this and even now David Baddiel has pointed it out, am struggling to see this as an example of antisemitism. Am I missing something here? Is this antisemitic?

[Sparklfairy]

Genuinely confused how does pronouncing a Jewish name in a Jewish way make you anti Jewish?

Surreptitiously saying 'Epstein the sex offender (who by the way was Jewish)'

[Breathlessness]

It’s a name of German origin that is pronounced differently in America - like lots of European surnames.

’I took it as typical Corbynesque out-of-touchness and insularity, i.e. he hasn't bothered to listen to how that particular person's name is pronounced but defaulted to his own knowledge and education’

I agree with this ^

[pigeononthegate]

But it doesn't emphasise his Jewishness. It says "it's a German name and this is how it's pronounced according to German pronunciation rules".

I have a friend whose name is Weinstein. I have to remind myself every time to say "weensteen" instead of "vineshtine" because I spent ten years studying German. Nothing to do with Judaism fgs

[CatInTheDaytime]

I think we can definitely say that given the situation, whether it was some kind of attempt at a dig, unconscious passive aggression or just cluelessness, Corbyn would have been well-advised to take more care and make sure he gets things like this right. But that's not what he's like at all is it. He's stubborn, insular and unempathetic.

But as PP's have said the pair of them are awful in every way anyway.

[Madhatterhouse]

I would have pronounced it in the German way as I speak German, I only knew it was supposed to be pronounced Ep-STEEN after watching a 30 sec clip of the Prince Andrew documentary.

I’m not saying he’s not an antisemite. I’m just not sure this points towards it in particular.

[Trewser]

He does have the look of one of those people who would insist on using the correct Spanish pronunciation when ordering tapas in Croydon

🤣🤣🤣

[KevinKlineSwoon]

The thing is, he mispronounced it. He can't possibly not know how it's said. The name Jeffrey Epstein is said frequently on tv and radio - especially this week. So either he is stupid, thinks he knows best or he is highlighting the difference. Ignorant, arrogant or racist?

[SummerPavillion]

I'd be inclined to think it was cluelessness rather than making a deliberate point, from what I know of JC.

[Trewser]

He was almost certainly jist passed a piece of paper about JE, probably 30 mins before the show. He's probably totally unaware of him.

[awesomeaircraft]

Madhatterhouse ditto.

But I would have expected that leaders of political parties are normally briefed on these things. So I will put leave this one on the fence.

[Breathlessness]

How many times can you genuinely say, “He should listen to Radio 4 to seem more in touch.”

[Trewser]

Yes, cluelessness.

[Auradal]

I have a friend whose name is Weinstein. I have to remind myself every time to say "weensteen" instead of "vineshtine" because I spent ten years studying German. Nothing to do with Judaism fgs

I've only just found out that Weinstein is pronounced weensteen..I live in a German speaking country and although I read the news etc until a couple of weeks ago I had never heard the name Weinstein relating to Harvey Weinstein spoken out loud. When I watched a video by one of the woman abused by him I was surprised to hear the pronunciation Weensteen.
Similarly with Epstein - I thought it was pronounced the way Corbyn pronounced it and only through the twitter furore have I found out that the anglicized form is correct.

I don't know if Corbyn was being deliberately anti-semitic. He must have heard the correct pronunciation at some point but perhaps he thought that everyone else is wrong and he is correct because he is using correct German pronunciation - a bit like some people pronounce Budapest Budapessht and others the anglicized form.
Who knows. But as Corbyn has been anti-semitic in many other ways people will be looking out for things like this and notice it much more.

[GrumpyHoonMain]

I find it telling that Baddiel is focussing more on the supposed anti-semitism of pronouncing the name the German way, than Epstein’s victims. Epstein’s religion doesn’t matter in this context but Corbyn’s message certainly did.

[Breathlessness]

“Who’s the only gay in the village?”
“Eddie Grundy?”

[WeshMaGueule]

Yep total barrel-scraping. I wouldn't be surprised if JC had been on holiday to Germany and picked up a bit of the lingo, it's something someone of his generation might well have done. And names can be pronounced more than one way, just ask David Bowie.

[Anonanonanonanonanonanonanon]

I've followed the Epstein (and Weinstein) stories on TV and radio and now this thread has made me totally confused about how to pronounce either of their names. I can't remember how I've heard them said. I think I default to the Germanic pronunciation. Baddiel is definitely scraping the barrel with this one.

[MustardScreams]

Are we really going over how Corbyn pronounced a name when children and young women have been raped, abused and trafficked?

[Trewser]

mustard

Its an interesting point, not the main point.

[Minionoftheantichrist]

Mustardscreams I was very surprised that David Baddiel highlighted this matter. As you say it is ridiculous in the light of the heinous crimes Epstein committed. But highlighted it he did and I was interested in what others thought about it, especially as I’m Jewish and found it difficult to see how it illustrates Corbyns antisemitism.

[CommunistLegoBloc]

I'm Jewish and it's scraping-the-barrel shit like this that means real concerns of anti-Semitism are dismissed.

[MustardScreams]

Is every poster on this thread just going to gloss over Baddiel’s blackface as well?

I’m not saying we need to forget anti-Semitism because there are other horrific things happening in the world, but a name being pronounced differently in this context isn’t a reasonable argument.

I’m sure if we went though other UK politicians saying Epstein you’d find a few that mispronounced it, or pronounced it the way they assumed was correct.

[SwedishEdith]

I'm saying both names out loud now trying to see how I pronounce them. I'm sure I say wine over ween like in Winehouse. How does Chris Stein pronounce his name?

[Ghoulestofmums]

I took ages to get used to the actor Robert Wagner’s surname being pronounced as it looks rather than like the German composer