David Baddiels comment about Corbyn

[Minionoftheantichrist]

I’ve looked for a thread about this but can’t see one.
David Baddiel picked up that on the leaders debate Corbyn pronounced Epstein in a way that made it sound more Jewish ie Epshteen as opposed to Epsteen. He said every Jew will have noticed this and that it’s another example of Corbyns antisemitism.

I’m Jewish. I’m no fan of Corbyn but really hadn’t noticed this and even now David Baddiel has pointed it out, am struggling to see this as an example of antisemitism. Am I missing something here? Is this antisemitic?

The current government have fucked this country but...oh dear Corbyn didn’t pronounce Epstein in the way we would like. Honestly I could scream.

FFS don’t become disabled or poor any of you ...you are about to vote back in the Govt who have decimated all public services and will continue to do so once you let them back in.

Still at least we won’t have that Corbyn fellow who may or may not have pronounced Epstein in a way we didn’t like. Ooh must be an anti Semite pronouncing Epstein like that.

Please...give your fucking heads a wobble.

It's amazing how many Jewish people on MN have been queuing up to say that they don't think Corbyn is anti-Semitic, when in RL I haven't met one person who thinks he isn't.

I have Irish family and think he was far too close to Sinn Fein if that counts.

He pronounced a Jewish name correctly how is that racist?

DH is Jewish, I'm not.
We both noticed it. It was hard to miss tbh.

I think JC was just clueless in this instance.

I don't usually listen to the news, I usually read it, so in my head I read it as Epshtine. But I know he is American, so if I had been talking about it I probably would have anglicised and said Epstine (like the manager of the Beatles)

Similarly if I was trying to anglicise (Americanise) Harvey Weinstein I probably would have said "wine stine" but I think it is actually pronounced "wine stain"

Knowing they are both American, both influential and I think from NY, I would have assumed they were both Jewish. Which is actually really rather a stereotyping assumption.

If I didn't know where they were from, I might assume German origin, but probably not Jewish.

I'm Jewish and I noticed it.

@Duckwillow, I think you’ve mistaken me for another poster. I’m not remotely offended and, like you, am pretty nonplussed that anyone else is. Anyway, I’m not offended by your misdirected rant either.

He pronounced a Jewish name correctly how is that racist?

The correct pronunciation of someone's surname is how they themselves pronounce it. In the US, the surname Epstein is pronounced Ep-steen. It has been all over the news the last couple of weeks so I'd be very surprised if Corbyn hadn't heard this.

Pronouncing it Ep-stine? Understandable - the steen/stine thing is very inconsistent, I know.

It was his inclusion of the 'sh' sound that made me uncomfortable. It was like he was actively trying to make Epstein sound more Jewish.

By itself, I wouldn't care.

But its not an isolated incident - its part of an extremely troubling pattern of behaviour.

I still don't know how to pronounce Weinstein.

I noticed it. I think it was Corbyn's clumsy attempt to "be inclusive ". Typical incompetence.

Better to pronounce the bastard's name as he would have pronounced it. I follow a lot of US coverage and I've only ever heard "steen", maybe "stine" now and then.

I've never heard "schtine " which is what Corbyn did.
I can see the argument that Corbyn was drawing attention to the bastard's ethnicity. I think Corbyn was just being shit.

I heard it but assumed it was just him pronouncing it 'the right way'. I've always pronounced it ep-styne tbh. I didn't even realise it was ep-steen! It's scraping the barrel to suggest it's anything antisemetic

Even if he is antisemitic he's hardly going to shout from the rooftops "look here's a Jewish paedophile!". I think even the vilest of racists knows to be more subtle than that.

"schtine" the correct German pronunciation of "stein", though. That's just a fact.

I think we need to know whether or not Corbyn is a German speaker, or has a particular interest in languages.

Can I just say, posters repeating 'but it's the correct authentic Jewish pronunciation' - please stop this patronising, ignorant rubbish.

Jews have adapted the spelling/pronunciation of their surnames throughout history to try to fit in with the country they are living in, in an attempt to minimise antisemitic reactions.

E.g. Luciana Berger - the original pronunciation was Burger; her family pronounces it Ber-jer

Telling a Jewish person that they are pronouncing their surname incorrectly is highly offensive. Pronounce it the way we pronounce it.

Weinstein

Wine-steen. I'm not pretending it makes sense.

Nobody is disputing that, Halleil, people are simply pointing out that the word is of German origin, and there is a corret way of pronouncing it according to the conventions of the German language. I pronounced it Ep-schtine before I realised it was Ep-steen, because I'm a German speaker and that's how I read it. I'd be bloody annoyed if someone extrapolated from that that I was anti-semitic.

I'd be bloody annoyed if someone extrapolated from that that I was anti-semitic

I would in no way extrapolate from that that you are antisemitic.

Because, unlike Mr Corbyn, I highly doubt you run a political party currently being investigated by the Equality and Human Rights Commission for institutional antisemitism.

By itself, it's nothing. But coming from someone with a highly troubling pattern of behaviour regarding antisemitism, it is something.

Yes, I do see that, but I think this is reaching somewhat. The pronunciation suggests German, not Jewish.

If it was an anti-semitic dogwhistle, it was an exceptionally stupid one.

I think Corbyn can sometimes be a bit pedantic. I don't think he or Johnson is particularly bright which is worrying.

I noticed it and winced.

It's not troubling in itself. It's troubling in context and as part of a pattern.

Ok so he was just pronouncing the German (or Jewish as people keep saying) name correctly, except he didnt did he? He still said 'steen' rather than 'stine' which wouldn't be the german pronunciation. Its obvious why he did it.

It’s a bit weird why he pronounced it like he did when it’s been Ep-steen the whole time. Most people have anglicised the name many years ago and it would be very odd in England or America to still pronounce it the German way. It would be ep-steen, wine-steen, gold-steen. I don’t know anyone who uses a Germanic pronunciation. My name is foreign and we use the anglicised pronunciation and I’d be a bit irritated with someone trying to be clever and pronounce it differently when they’d heard it being used in what I consider the correct form.

I don’t think it’s anti Semitic, just a bit try hard

it would be very odd in England or America to still pronounce it the German way.

But he's old enough to remember Brian Epstein whose name people did flip-flop over pronouncing steen or stein. So, it's not very odd.

From that NYT article:

"What about steen and stine ? Is there any rhyme or reason to the chosen pronunciation? Everyone named Stein, and Stein alone, pronounces the name stine . Stein is a stein is a stein, as Gertrude used to say. Yet Andrew Stein, Borough President of Manhattan, and soon to be a candidate for Congress from the ''silk-stocking district,'' has an industrialist father named Jerry Finkles tein, who pronounces the last syllable steen . When son Andrew shortened the name, the pronunciation automatically shifted.

Here are a few stines : John Steinbeck, Albert Einstein, Gloria Steinem, Mayor Dianne Feinstein; the ''eye'' pronunciation of the ei can also be heard in the names of Dwight Eisenhower, Carl Reiner, Caspar Weinberger and Barbra (only two a 's) Streisand.

Now here are a few steens : Leonard Bernstein, Carl Bernstein, Robert Brustein. Gambler Nicky Arnstein married Fanny Brice, played by Barbra Streisand, in a confusing ee-eye-o."