David Baddiels comment about Corbyn

[Minionoftheantichrist]

I’ve looked for a thread about this but can’t see one.
David Baddiel picked up that on the leaders debate Corbyn pronounced Epstein in a way that made it sound more Jewish ie Epshteen as opposed to Epsteen. He said every Jew will have noticed this and that it’s another example of Corbyns antisemitism.

I’m Jewish. I’m no fan of Corbyn but really hadn’t noticed this and even now David Baddiel has pointed it out, am struggling to see this as an example of antisemitism. Am I missing something here? Is this antisemitic?

[Breathlessness]

I’ve just had to google that. Blackface is completely appalling and there’s no excuse for it. That doesn’t mean David Baddiel should be ignored on antisemitism.

[mathsquestions]

Prior to last night who else in politics / news media has used that pronunciation?

[Minionoftheantichrist]

MustardScreams just googled Baddiel and blackface. Bloody hell thats shocking. It doesn’t mean that he shouldn’t call out racism if he sees it but to have been a perpetrator of a prolonged, very public racist attack, makes his Corbyn incident sound very hypocritical. I used to like DB but this has totally changed my opinion of him.

[kingsassassin]

It wasn't obvious to me until I heard it last night and googled that Epstein was actually jewish. I hadn't really thought at all about it (and I'm not jewish) so I hadn't made the association with the name. If anything I'd have thought it was a name commonly adopted by immigrants to the US from central Europe who nowadays didn't practise any religion at all.

Unfortunately, it is a bit "the JEWISH paedophile, Jeffrey Epstein" which is not great, given the Labour party's documented problems with anti-semitism.

[franke]

As a German speaker I've also always pronounced Epstein and Weinstein the German way. But when I read the Baddiel tweet I did wonder of this is a known slur against Jews, pronouncing names the incorrect (well correct in Germany) way. I'm interested to know if it is the case, because the last thing I want to be its antisemitic. Baddiel has never struck me as someone who gets offended over nothing.

[CendrillonSings]

What’s all the fuss about? It’s not as if antisemitism in the Labour Party has gone from minimal to pervasive in a few short years’ of Corbyn’s leadership... oh, wait, it has!

[cultkid]

He's pronouncing it correctly
Although corbyn is a twat

[SarahLovesMarmite]

I am confused!
I would always have pronounced it Ep-styne.
However I noticed Emily Maitlis using Ep-steen during the interview with Andrew on Saturday night and have caught myself using this version a few times when talking about it with friends which surprises me. It has just popped out because that is what I heard.
Some of my colleagues have said it as Ep-schtyne or Ep-schteen.
Which did Corbyn use last night? Which is correct? Which should I be using?

[Alsohuman]

why would you make a point of emphasising the jewishness of that particular sex offender's name by pronouncing it in a very unusual way.

It’s not an unusual way. It’s the original, pre Americanised way.

[SwedishEdith]

Quite interesting although slightly off the point of this thread

ON LANGUAGE; STINE OR STEEN?

www.nytimes.com/1983/12/25/magazine/on-language-stine-or-steen.html

[Bluesheep8]

I'm not Jewish and I noticed it. I took it that he was trying to pronounce it properly.

[Goldenbear]

My husband noticed this and he is Jewish.

[SwedishEdith]

I guess the rule is you pronounce it the way the owner pronounces it. But most of us have never heard Epstein or Weinstein say their own names. And I didn't know that, generally, Americans pronounce stein as steen when part of a name but stine when a name in its own right. But not always.

[somebrightmorning]

’I took it as typical Corbynesque out-of-touchness and insularity, i.e. he hasn't bothered to listen to how that particular person's name is pronounced but defaulted to his own knowledge and education’

this gets my vote.

[CendrillonSings]

It’s not an unusual way. It’s the original, pre Americanised way.

Pity Corbyn’s too thick to have noticed that Epstein’s an American!

[Drabarni]

I'm part Jewish, vote labour and this is just another example of a well known tory spouting shit.

[MustardScreams]

@CendrillonSings but Corbyn isn’t American. People can’t pronounce my very Welsh surname (no vowels!) unless they are Welsh. I don’t expect them to be able to pronounce it just because they know my family is Welsh.

[Twixes]

’I took it as typical Corbynesque out-of-touchness and insularity, i.e. he hasn't bothered to listen to how that particular person's name is pronounced but defaulted to his own knowledge and education’

Me too. If anything I would see pronouncing a name the correct way as a sign of respect?

[CendrillonSings]

Literally all the coverage of Epstein on international news, on Sky, on the BBC, pronounces the name in the American way. Only Corbyn goes in for the “Epshhteen” version, for some reason.

[Breathlessness]

Who’s a Tory?

[Twixes]

Has anyone got a link to that section of the debate? I read elsewhere that Johnson referred to Epstein as 'Jeffrey' i.e. first name basis/familiarly. Is that right? I didnt notice it at the time

[Ambivert]

@Twixes

I’m pretty sure that is a mix up. BJ said “Jeremy” and then quickly corrected himself to Mr Corbyn.

[HumousWhereTheHeartIs]

@MustardScreams but we can all pronounce Plaid Cymru because we hear it often. same goes for Epstein which our news is full of. I too assumed he was Ep-styne too until I heard it in the media.
I hear Billie Eilish's name pronounced as Eye-lish and don't say it 'correctly'. It's her name. She can pronounce it any way she chooses.

[peadarm]

I noticed it at the time and thought it was weird. The 'stein' bit is actually phonetic (especially if you know German) and I automatically use that 'correct' pronunciation myself - it was the 'sch' that was odd. Particularly as he didn't use it first time he said it.

And it is true that making names - be they Asian, African, Irish or whatever - sound more foreign, is a bit dodgy.

Is Corbyn perhaps a German scholar?

[Twixes]

Thanks Ambivert that makes much more sense.