David Baddiels comment about Corbyn

[Minionoftheantichrist]

I’ve looked for a thread about this but can’t see one.
David Baddiel picked up that on the leaders debate Corbyn pronounced Epstein in a way that made it sound more Jewish ie Epshteen as opposed to Epsteen. He said every Jew will have noticed this and that it’s another example of Corbyns antisemitism.

I’m Jewish. I’m no fan of Corbyn but really hadn’t noticed this and even now David Baddiel has pointed it out, am struggling to see this as an example of antisemitism. Am I missing something here? Is this antisemitic?

@Deathgrip Gosh, what a very, very unfortunate non racist he is! He's accidentally written a detailed foreword praising, in detail, a book that is famously, massively antisemitic, and your excuse is that he hadn't read it!

He's accidentally defended and praised an antisemitic mural, and I suppose he - poor unfortunate - hadn't seen it either!

And he's no doubt kept his close links with Holocaust deniers, who are far too antisemitic for the Palestine Solidarity Campaign, for.... um.... some other totally accidental reason that could happen to anyone!

Gosh, I mean, the number of times I've accidentally written forewords praising massively racist books, spoken up for massively racist murals, and been closely associated with massively racist Holocaust deniers - it could and does happen to anyone, all the time!

He's like a sort of Frank Spencer of racism, isn't he? One totally accidental massively antisemitic blunder after another! Gosh, what WILL he do next? Silly old Jez! How unlucky he is!

you would be the first to add it to your list of the other despicable things he's said.

My list? I don’t keep track of what Johnson says whatsoever. I didn’t bring up anything Johnson has said, ever, on any of these threads until you tried to make me out to be a hypocrite.

@Deathgrip
It 'says a lot', does it?

And what do you think it 'says' that you're actually defending him writing a foreword saying how 'correct and prescient' a massively, openly, famously antisemitic book is - by saying he hadn't read it?

Fuck me, what an absolutely craven, embarrassing, appalling, shitty excuse to make.

How the fuck can you come out with that shit and keep a straight face?

Utterly, utterly shameful.

@bellinisurge No, the kindest interpretation is that he's a massive, huge antisemite. Because he is.

Going back to the pronounciation of the paedophiles name
I’m just wondering if Bradley Walsh is anti Semitic after his pronunciation of the word
Stein.
On today’s cash trapped

He said schtine.

Totally confused now.
If he’s not anti Semitic should he have st
Aid
Stine

Surely you realise that just because a newspaper commissions a poll doesn't mean they carry it out themselves and only poll their own readership. I can't believe adults in this country could be so misinformed about basic things in this day and age.

Where did I say they only polled their own readership? I implied they are a Conservative publication in tone and bias.

Survation? That entirely morally upstanding and honest organisation?

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-06/brexit-pollster-faces-scrutiny-over-secret-political-operations

www.ft.com/content/dae3d7c8-7bb8-11e8-8e67-1e1a0846c475

Anyone who looks at even these three incidents alone, leaving aside the hundreds of others, and still says he's not an antisemite is either a liar or an idiot.

He should never have put his name to it, even if he’d condemned those sections it would have been a stupid thing to do.

Except what he actually did was to single them out and say how 'correct and prescient' they were.

In literally his own words, he wrote that hugely antisemitic sections of an openly antisemitic book that said that Jews deliberately cause all the wars in the world and Jewish bankers control the money, are 'correct and prescient'.

What the fuck more would anyone want? He's fucking said it himself.

Sick of this, so so so fucking sick of it. It's there in fucking black and white. For fuck's sake.

I noticed today Corbyn pronounced it Ep-steen.
Maybe someone had a word with him?

Koev li halev.

Duchess, if you produced video of him writing I am an antisemite and signing it you would still have people online denying it. Don’t expect empathy or any attempt at understanding.

if you produced video of him writing I am an antisemite and signing it you would still have people online denying it. Don’t expect empathy or any attempt at understanding.

Well said. The Corbyn cult doesn’t exactly recruit on the basis of respect for evidence and critical thinking!

@Breathlessness i know you're right - because that foreword pretty much is that. I KNOW you're right. I know I should try to stop engaging. I've had several years of this now & it's ramping up. I know there's no empathy. I know that the callousness towards us goes all the way down.

I will never forget going on the 'Enough is Enough' march with my kids (very small at the time) & coming physically face to face with Corbyn supporters who literally laughed at us & mocked us.

I realised on that day that it was a futile thing to try to do. I guess I'm hoping that there are other people reading who may not realise the extent of Corbyn's racism and how completely blatant it has been - perhaps this will be eye opening for them.

They are totally blind to it. The same people who would tie themselves in knots to avoid causing any unintentional offence to those of other faiths and ethnicities simply don’t see it.

It's wilful blindness. Look at all that stuff I posted upthread about the mural, the foreword, and Paul Eisen. That stuff is clear as day. No one can just accidentally fail to see that. They don't want to know. They don't care what happens to us - at all. We know how this ends.

Except what he actually did was to single them out and say how 'correct and prescient' they were.

Do you say this knowing it’s a lie, or are you just unaware of the truth? As far as every single thing I’ve read about this is concerned (and that’s many many articles), at no point does he single out those few lines or make any comment on them. He calls the book “correct and prescient” in his foreword, not these phrases. If his actions are so blatant I do not understand the need to continually misrepresent them.

I notice you also stuck some quotes in there from an entirely different work, unconnected to Corbyn. You did write that it’s from a different book, but anyone skimming would miss this, so just pointed it out).

I didn’t say he didn’t read it. I’m saying that he may not have read it carefully enough immediately prior to writing the foreword to take note of the two concerning sentences. Most people who write forewords for most books do not study the contents in such detail.

It’s an historic, widely taught text. I am sure Corbyn read it in his formative years. I read it at university as part of a module on Imperialism - I remember it being very dated in terms of cultural relativism and its general themes but not much beyond that. Many books from that era are unfortunately littered with anti-Semitic and otherwise deeply racist comments.

I certainly don’t remember it being a specifically anti-semitic text, and I’ve never seen any academic describe it as such, but that’s because those sentences are not representative of the book’s underlying themes. They are isolated, and easily missed if one were refreshing their memory of the book.

As I’ve said from my first post on this thread, it’s one of a few legitimate concerns that need to be looked at closely. I am saying it is not definitive evidence of anti-semitism, in my opinion. And I’m not alone in that opinion. Here’s one, from a historian who’s repeatedly taught the text:
www.theguardian.com/news/2019/may/02/jeremy-corbyn-hobsons-imperialism-and-antisemitism

You’re determined to paint me as unreasonable, dismiss the fact that my father and that entire side of my family are Jewish to try and make me out to be arsehole, make me out to be a bigot. That’s your prerogative but it’s not remotely the case. I don’t expect to convince you of that obviously. I am trying to counter the misrepresentations I see, for those who are not reading widely on the subject.

Again, if Corbyn is such a virulent anti-Semite, how do you explain the findings of the Select Committee investigation into U.K. anti-semitism? It’s not like my point of view has no basis, you just disagree with it.

Ask Luciana Berger about antisemitism in Labour
Ask the staff that ran the investigation into antisemitism within Labour

Any holocaust denier is a piece of dirt

I am genuinely sorry that you feel the way you clearly do. I don’t want anyone, of any minority group, to feel that way in this country. You may not believe me, but it is true.

At no point have I said Corbyn is innocent of any wrongdoing. You’re talking to and about me like I am one of those Corbyn-obsessed idiots who think he shits gold-coated rainbows. That is not me at all.

But if he is such a threat, if his actions prove that he is legitimately an existential threat to your community (and I’m truly sorry if you believe that), why not just accurately represent what he has done? I don’t understand the need to misrepresent it because surely the truth of the matter is more powerful?

You think I don’t care. You’re wrong I absolutely do. Not just about my family and their families, but about you too. The reason I want to get the Conservatives out is because I care, not just about myself but about other people.

I care about this country, and the state it’s in. I care about the fact that hate crime is increasing against all minorities and has done so throughout the last decade. I care about the rise in homelessness, child poverty, pensioner poverty, the working poor. I care that this government has openly, actively attacked disabled people - I have two disabled children and I legitimately fear for everything about their lives under a Tory government.

According to the Jewish Chronicle, the majority of British Jews vote Conservative. I don’t go around accusing them of hating disabled people, or of being vile disablist bigots. I understand that the reality is not that clear cut. So you don’t need to talk to me about people seemingly not caring about the harm being done to you and those you love - I’ve been living with that for going on a decade and to be honest most people genuinely don’t seem to give a fuck. I don’t know whether they do or not, but the concern isn’t forthcoming.

We need proper political discourse in this country, it’s completely vanished, replaced by soundbytes, outright lies and misrepresentation. (And despite your dismissive comments, understanding the funding behind the sources of our information is very fucking important).

So you can keep responding to me like I’m some ignorant twat who’s not listening, not thinking and denying there’s any kind of problem. That’s not reality or what I’ve said. I’m sure you’ll have some quip that mocks me or diminishes what I’ve said, go right ahead.

DuchessMustard I’ve just seen your post much earlier in the thread talking about how you’re currently feeling. Had I noticed this sooner I wouldn’t have gotten into a heated debate with you, and I’m genuinely sorry if I’ve caused you further distress. I hope you feel better

@Deathgrip a well written articulate and heartfelt post. I totally get what you have been trying to say, unfortunately some people simply cannot cope with someone disagreeing with them or having another viewpoint. I think there’s definitely a case of that on this thread and a few of the similar ones.

@Deathgrip

According to the Jewish Chronicle, the majority of British Jews vote Conservative

Now they do. In 2010 it was almost an even split with slightly more voting Labour - a bigger majority for Labour among women

www.brin.ac.uk/political-leanings-of-britains-jews/

Since 2010 the % of Jewish women voting for labour has dropped from 33% to around 6%.

Because funnily enough Jewish people don't want to vote for a massive antisemite.

Among my friends and family I still hardly know anyone who will vote Tory. We are disenfranchised and politically abandoned. I'm lucky to have a brilliant lib dem candidate who was driven out of the labour party but many Jewish people have no one they feel they can vote for.

I’ve just seen your post much earlier in the thread talking about how you’re currently feeling. Had I noticed this sooner I wouldn’t have gotten into a heated debate with you, and I’m genuinely sorry if I’ve caused you further distress.

I don't understand this. Is it somehow news to you that this is a time of absolute terror, huge distress, betrayal and horror for Jewish people in britain? My feelings are very widely shared

You make a reference to me making a 'quip'. You really, really don't understand at all, do you? If you think there has been anything resembling amusement, happiness or humour for me in any of this. None of it is a fucking joke to me, to any of us.

If it wasnt for my children I would just be hanging up on the whole fucking sorry
Mess. I can't fucking be bothered to carry on fighting in the face of history repeating itself yet again.

Duchess, it is deeply troubling (understatment). But your words will, I guarantee, have opened some readers' eyes to the ramping up of antisemitism and if enough people realise what it happening, it can be arrested. Most people in the UK are fundamentally decent, I have to believe that. And if people like you keep telling us how it really is, and why apologising for someone like Corbyn is so wrong, the scales will fall from enough of our eyes that we can stop history repeating itself.

An unmumsnetty "Take care, lovey"- for you.

@Deathgrip
But if he is such a threat, if his actions prove that he is legitimately an existential threat to your community (and I’m truly sorry if you believe that), why not just accurately represent what he has done? I don’t understand the need to misrepresent it because surely the truth of the matter is more powerful?

This accusation of misrepresentation is such a lie and makes me so angry and upset. I have been thinking about it all night

We tell you what we experience with our own first-hand experience and you say it's just anecdote.

we provide overwhelming data and you go out of your way to discredit the polling organisation.

we provide one concrete black-and-white example after another and you excuse every single one, even though it is perfectly obvious that it is is a huge picture made up of hundreds of separate incidents.

do you think it is a coincidence that he accidentally wrote a foreword praising anti-semitic book AND accidentally defended an openly anti-semitic mural AND accidentally was closely connected to multiple Holocaust deniers AND accidentally laid a wreath for the murderers of the Jewish athletes AND embraced and praised a cleric who spread the blood libel AND oversaw the ignoring of thousands of complains AND encouraged the bullying and hounding out of Jewish MPs who have been there for decades?

how many hundreds or thousands of these accidental incidents all of which point in exactly the same direction will you continue to defend and 'excuse' with the most flimsy excuses before it even starts to cross your mind that maybe you have got this wrong and you should listen??

Duchess do you think it is a JC problem or a party problem?
Is it the influx of Labour members of an old hate emerging?

(I know that's a simplified q I'm interested in how it feels to you)

metro.co.uk/2019/10/31/jewish-labour-movement-will-not-campaign-jeremy-corbyn-win-election-11017812/

This is the first time in the century long history of the Jewish Labour Movement that they have not campaigned for their own party leader in an election.

this has never happened before.

these are people who have dedicated their entire lives and careers to working for the Labour Party.

are you also going to say they are secret Tories who want to smear Corbyn??

at what point will any of this get through to you?

@Deathgrip