David Baddiels comment about Corbyn

[Minionoftheantichrist]

I’ve looked for a thread about this but can’t see one.
David Baddiel picked up that on the leaders debate Corbyn pronounced Epstein in a way that made it sound more Jewish ie Epshteen as opposed to Epsteen. He said every Jew will have noticed this and that it’s another example of Corbyns antisemitism.

I’m Jewish. I’m no fan of Corbyn but really hadn’t noticed this and even now David Baddiel has pointed it out, am struggling to see this as an example of antisemitism. Am I missing something here? Is this antisemitic?

I can also add my disgust that posters claimed to be making donations to the labour party in the name of a Jewish poster.

It's just revolting that anyone would think that is acceptable.

I wasn't aware Epstein was Jewish.

It's irrelevant anyway.

DB will do anything to boost his flagging career, what a load of bollocks over pronouncing a name.
I hope they hurry up and complete this investigation, so all the conservatives spouting this rubbish will finally shut up.
Labour voters who have left, are no better than sheeple, believing the propaganda spewed about Labour.
I'm Romany Jewish so a double whammy of discrimination and racism, and I'm voting Labour without a doubt.

Erm, as someone who works in publishing I can assure you DB's career is by no means flagging! I wish I had his royalties.

He’s been accused of being a Tory, being so rich that he’s afraid of a Labour win because of their tax policies and now of being so unsuccessful that he just wants publicity. May I be the first to suggest he’s a closet Plaid Cymru fan.

Either that or, you know, genuinely concerned about antisemitism.

@MustardScreams DuchessMustard just caught up on the thread. Are you ok? I’m sorry that small minded people have seen fit to bully you and find it amusing. It’s truly disgusting. Whatever anyone’s views on how JC said Epstein that is never ok.

Thank you my mustardy friend. I'm OK, ish, but this kind of bullying and open taunting of Jews is getting more and more common both in real life and online.

We are told we're lying, that we're Tories, that we're 'smearing' the saintly JC, that we're just worried about paying more taxes (ha! I'm self employed and haven't even earned above my personal allowance for the past four years)... you name it. A lot of those accusations are in this thread, more or less disguised.

I'm not coping that well, and a lot of my Jewish friends and family (I'd say probably the majority) are not coping that well either. It's never been like this in our lifetimes. Corbyn has made it OK, more than OK, positively celebrated to be antisemitic for the first time.

@Jojo2389 Thank you

@JamieVardysHavingAParty
Various people on this thread with the life-experience to know say yes. If someone tells us that emphasis on a word is a racist slur against their ethnic group, we tend to belive them, so why are Jews being treated differently when they describe a similar phenomenon?

Unfortunately one of the cleverest tactics of the antisemites is to claim that Jews are lying about antisemitism in order to 'control' or 'influence' what other people say.

It's very clever because if we object to racism against us, it is framed as 'the Jewish lobby trying to shut down free speech'. So we are really stuck,

Corbyn was very clever doing this because - like so many other things he has said and done - he knows that Jewish people will hear it for what it is (and I don't mean 'Jewish' people with some tenuous blood link, but no lived experience of being Jewish, but people who have actually spent their lives within Jewish families and communities and understand what it means to be on the receiving end of antisemitism) but that it is so easily deniable and made to look like we are being completely ridiculous.

Honestly i am struggling to soldier on at the moment. I've never known it like this. My mental health is shot. I'm struggling with eating problems and with drinking problems, my work is suffering, I can't sleep without sleeping pills, my relationships with family and friends and even my own children are suffering. I feel close to being utterly destroyed by this.

I know there will be plenty of JC supporter feeling very happy to read that. But what can I do? This is our reality.

Well it never crossed my mind that Epstein was Jewish before this. I think Corbyn was probably just trying to be “right on” with what he thought was a linguistically correct Germanic pronunciation. Probably thought it would make him look clever and get one over on Boris.

@Breathlessness Either that or, you know, genuinely concerned about antisemitism.

Couldn't possibly be - don't you know he's a sneaky Jew, so he must have an agenda. Probably something to do with wanting to keep his greedy hands on all of his money. Or perhaps he wants some gentile blood to make matzos.

/s

I think Corbyn was probably just trying to be “right on” with what he thought was a linguistically correct Germanic pronunciation.

I started out thinking that, but it doesn't make sense. None of us bother to pronounce Einstein like that, even though Albert Einstein was a German speaking German, born in Germany, whose name would have been pronounced as Einshtine, by him.

What are the chances some random American family, whose ancestors came from a German-speaking region however many generations ago, still insist that everyone pronounces an invisible h in their surname? Why put it in?

But it turns out on this thread that people who have cause to know (because they've been on the end of the prejudice) can say that putting the sht in names that end in Stein is a thing amongst anti-semites.

It's maybe not conclusive evidence, but let's be fair, I'd hang Jeremy Clarkson for less against any other group.

And finally, all racism, every where, starts out with the small shit. Ignored, it ramps up to the big stuff.

I think we'd better stop telling Jews that they're imagining things. Sure, it could be all a terrible misunderstanding (my fevered imagination can certainly come up with scenarios to explain it away) but if it was a genuine accident, Corbyn won't mind us telling him that it sounded like he was trying to make a racist point about JE's heritage, will he?

Honestly i am struggling to soldier on at the moment. I've never known it like this. My mental health is shot. I'm struggling with eating problems and with drinking problems, my work is suffering, I can't sleep without sleeping pills, my relationships with family and friends and even my own children are suffering. I feel close to being utterly destroyed by this.

I know there will be plenty of JC supporter feeling very happy to read that. But what can I do? This is our reality.

Well, I'm a leftie who really isn't happy to read that. I'm sorry. I'm really sorry.

I didn't watch the debate so i am only going on what the OP says. In this day and age one really can't win! People get offended if their names are mispronounced and people get offended if their names are pronounced correctly. I am really struggling to understand how a Jewish name can be pronounced to make it sound more jewish.Surely if it is a Jewish name it should be pronounced as the jewish do, just like a spanish name should be pronounced like the spanish do etc. Maybe, just maybe, JC was actually trying to prounounce it as the jewish do. If he didn't pronounce it how the jewish do ,people would then say he deliberately mispronounced the surname because he doesn't want to show any respect to a jewish name. So the man can't really win. The fact that the surname is now unfortunately linked to that of a sexoffender is besides the point. I am sure there will be a lot of decent jews sharing that surname and should be shown respect. I personally think that anglifying names is racist and offensive. Just because most of us are used to hearing a name pronounced in a certain anglified way doesn't mean it's correct.

Just because most of us are used to hearing a name pronounced in a certain anglified way doesn't mean it's correct."

But what if he doesn't/didn't pronounce his name like that. Which he didn't. Americans tend to anglicise their pronunciation.

This thread is the denial of antisemitism in real time.
That such a thing should be happening in modern Britain is shameful.

Tbf..i didn't watch the debate. But from what DB says JC had pronounced a jewish name to sound "more jewish" and in my mind a jewish name should be pronounced like the jewish do. American, britsh and maybe even the aussies may anglify names and pronounciations but that doesn't make them right.

@JamieVardysHavingaParty

With respect, I take offence at you saying "putting the sht in names that end in Stein is a thing amongst anti-semites." I am from Austria and this is how the name is pronounced by everyone. Also in other German-speaking lands this is regular pronunciation. Are you then saying we are all anti-semites unless we pronounce it the American way?

Utterly stunning interview with Corbyn in the Evening Standard - absolute denialism right from the leader himself:

www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/esmagazine/jeremy-corbyn-labour-interview-election-antisemitism-brexit-a4290601.html

Right. So what about the question of anti-Semitism? He suddenly turns from Mr Affable to Mr Angry, as if someone has pressed a switch. ‘There is NO anti-Semitism in the Labour Party,’ he bellows. Huh? How can he believe that when The Jewish Chronicle recently published a poll saying that half the British Jewish community would consider emigrating if Corbyn came to power?

This is what Corbyn really thinks!

This thread is the denial of antisemitism in real time.

What a load of rubbish. Tbh it's doing the cause more harm than good.
If there is anti semitism in the Labour party it will all come out in the investigation, and rightly so.
Until that time there's a lot of scare mongering and political propaganda that isn't helping at all.
This thread is one of those.
If you are Jewish and you believe the labour party are racist, that's your opinion.
If you are jewish and don't believe it, then that's opinion too.

@TinySnowflake , you are missing the point spectacularly here. I don't pronounce e.g. Angela Merkel or Vladimir Putin like a German speaker or a Russian speaker . No doubt it sounds odd to German or Russian speakers. Actually I speak Russian, but I don't use Russian pronunciation of his name when speaking to British people. Because that would sound like I was a poseur.
Corbyn just sounded like the poseur- dick that he is using a non- English speaker pronunciation of a name that the actual owner of that name never used. What with him being an American.

‘If there is anti semitism in the Labour party it will all come out in the investigation’

Labour were investigating antisemitism within the party. Did you not see the Panorama episode? Where the Labour staff who worked in the unit looking at complaints of antisemitism talked about how no effective action was taken, the leader’s office interfered and eventually they got rid of the staff!

Yes, and smeared them as mere 'disgruntled ex employees' on Twitter.

Thank you @derxa