Currently in a stand-off with my teenager

[Sewbean]

I have his phone and will not be giving it to him until he lets me see his French homework. His results in French have been pretty bad recently.

I'm not sure why he has chosen to make such a massive thing about this. He has been coming in and out of his room to rant about it since 8.30pm. That's almost 90 minutes he has wasted. He's been standing in the room whining non stop since 9.45, it's now 9.55 and he's still here going on about how horrible I am. I haven't said a single word. He knows very clearly what he needs to do, I am not backing down, I am not arguing.

I am however quietly going mad with the noise of him droning on and on. Usually he has given in long before this, I'm not sure what's got into him.

God he's hard work just now.

Cross posts-seeing that stand your ground

Sounds like he’s picking a fight with you on purpose because he’s out of control somewhere else in his life. Hmm.

Is it possible to say that calmly to him later on?

‘DS, I’m not sure this is about the French book any more- is something else upsetting you? I can’t help if I don’t know. I only want to see your French book to see what I need to discuss with the teacher. If I go into school to chat about it they’ll make you show your books to me in the meeting anyway. Are you upset about something else because this seems like a big argument to get into over me seeing your French book?”

You have my every sympathy OP, DS2 is just coming out of this now and it's an amazing feeling to have a nice human being hanging out in my home again. It's boundary testing pure and simple and as beloved parents we are the safest people to test them with but boy oh boy is it tiresome and HARD. Well done for your reasonable ground standing this morning. My DS3 is 12 and I am dreading this starting up all over again. I would do having two toddlers again over behaviour like this!

This is incredibly hard on you, but yes, I think you absolutely need to stick with it.

It won't kill him not to have his phone. It's just a phone FFS (which I bet you pay for). Nobody had one 20 years ago. If he wants it back then his way forward is very simple and easy. He is making a massive mountain out of a molehill.

I feel your pain, but things didn't improve with my teenagers until I gave up recognised that actually this is their responsibility and let them pass or fail on their own merits and stopped nagging trying manage their school work.

In the end they both did OK, although it was touch and go for a while but it saved our relationship.

My teenage years was spent in huge stand offs with my mother. She was very controlling and I hated her. I spent most of those years ignoring her and her ignoring me. She was very against me going to university which she considered a complete waste of time and money. We did not speak for most of my first term at university.
I hated the power she wielded when I was a teenager. She would tell school how difficult I was and how I was disobedient.
We had little contact really once I left home. I did duty visits but the memory of teenage rows lingered a long time.
My relationship with my children was very different. I tried hard to always be respectful of them and their feelings. It is hard being a teenager. You are so embarrassed by being treated like a child and terrified that your friends will cotton on. Mine knew I would help in anyway I could and I tried to never blame or punish but talk things through. We did talk. It helped that I was a teacher and I understood how difficult it is to cope with conflicting pressures of home and school.
I would return his phone and make up. Then I would ask to be allowed to help. I would make it clear that you are not the enemy but on his side. Be kind and understanding. A former headteacher friend told me that the best way to win over recalcitrant teenagers is to apologise for upsetting them and handling things badly. He had real baddies eating out of his hand. So often, they back themselves into a corner and they want a way out. You are the grown up. If you apologise, chances are that your son will apologise too and you can start afresh. Don't be the ogre unless you want him to be afraid of you. Teenagers remember and hold grudges unlike little children. You need to parent differently and give them increasing responsibility for their work. Be a friend as well as a strict parent if you want to a friendly relationship once they turn eighteen.

...saved our relationship and saw them mature into fine young adults almost overnight. The change in their sense of responsibility and ability to manage themselves was stunning, once they had to do rather than relying on me.

If he is 14 I assume it has a cock and balls drawn on it tbh. Or something similar. Or has no actual French words in it.
He will lose it as his next tactic.
What's your next move? I would say it's next to impossible to motivate a 14 year to work hard in a subject they dislike and have little talent for. Is this a GCSE course?

Could you laugh and say what on earth have you written in your book? And provide some outlandish examples - terrorist plots to blow up the school, professions of undying love for the oldest and least attractive teacher in the school, everything written in Russian instead? Let him know (in this jokey way) that you won't be shocked or start another tirade at him if you see something that isn't diligent French work. He doesn't want you to see it, and the most likely reason is that he's worried about what is (or isn't) written in there.

I feel for you, OP. My eldest will be 18 soon and at least once a week I hear, "I will be an adult soon and I can do what I like." It's amazing how paying her own way isn't on that list. She's lovely until she is told no and then all reason and intelligence go out the window and we are the worst. Parents. Ever. Just rowed before school and I think we are all thoroughly tired of each other. I hope it gets better! I have no advice because whatever we seem to do at this age is always the wrong thing!

@Sewbean, do read my previous post and in particular my comment about an outstanding Headteacher and how he coped brilliantly with difficult teenage boys. He generally started by apologising for handling things badly. He was never afraid to laugh at himself and to tell stories about how he had messed up at school. In my experience, he always managed to open up a dialogue and they were usually so grateful that someone in authority was understanding about their issues.
Don't declare war. There is nothing to be gained. ignore the calls for draconian punishment on here. You love your son and you should be on his side. Aim for a proper talk, listen to what he tells you. Be understanding and show empathy. Having a positive relationship in which he can tell you stuff without fear of punishment and judgement, is really important in parenting a teenager.

I'm regretting that, I really thought that would make him back down. But it hasn't. He is really determined tonight. Wtf is wrong with him?

Nothing is wrong with him, he's a normal, infuriating teenager. He's gettimg more independent and assertive and he knows you are being very unreasonable - in his mind - just like you know that he is being unreasonable.

I think it's a mistake to say he can't have his phone until he's done his French homework and shown you but you were right not to back down. I have got to the point with my 16 year old that I tell him I think it's a mistake to be on Youtube/his phone/whatever if I think he should be working but he knows it's his decision - he's learnt to take his own responsibility for it and he wouldn't have done if I'd stepped in when he was working. He doesn't like to show me his homework but by not forcing him to when he was younger he now often will show me.

mrsmuddlepies speaks a lot of sense. I agree with her wholeheartedly.

I agree with posters who are saying that parenting teenagers shouldn't be about a battle of wills - particularly about things such as phone use and homework.

I think that sometimes people believe that 'parenting' means 'controlling'. It doesn't. 'Pick your battles' is very good advice.

I would probably let this drop for a day and then when anger / sulking has gone down remind him that he wanted you to speak to school about his French. I think that a 3-way parent-child-teacher meeting is most useful. I am assuming here that your DS will have to take a language to GCSE and therefore it is important he gets on top of this. The important thing is that you need to be working together.

Been there, done this. If ds wouldn't engage as he knew best, I just reminded him that of the two of us in the room, one of us was educated to postgraduate level and one wasn't. I could get a job as I have qualifications (and experience). I wondered aloud how he proposed to support himself if he screwed up his IGCSEs and be behind his peer group if he had to do resits etc.

Eventually it sank in.

They do come out the other side OP.

Thankyou @AlexaShutUp. To be fair, it was the Headteacher's positive relationship with difficult students, that taught a lot of staff about managing teenage behaviour.

No, she can't back down or her darling teenager will walk all over her next time. She needs to stay calm & stay strong.

I've had three teenage boys, I know exactly what they are like
That would never work with my ds. He always had to have to go away and think about it and 99 times out 100 he would do the right thing. Causing a stand off would just make things worse. Everyone is different

I'd imagine his book shows that he's been putting no effort in.
I'd just go for the contacting school for an appointment with his teacher.

With schoolwork, I would back off. Make suggestions, offer help, but it’s the child’s responsibility. One of mine was failing in several school subjects, one being a language that I was fluent in. I offered help, begged to help, they refused. I never saw their books. Child kept saying, ‘I want to do it by myself.’ Which I thought was fair enough. I backed right off. I offered to get a tutor for maths, which was accepted. Passed all GCSE subjects. Parent’s job is to raise and support a child, not be their teacher. If the standoff had not started about schoolwork, do you think either of you would have reacted differently?

I think that sometimes people believe that 'parenting' means 'controlling'. It doesn't.

Exactly. Also, teenagers copy what they see. If you model stubborn intransigence by digging your heels in and refusing to budge on the most trivial of issues, then they will do the same. If, on the other hand, you behave reasonably, admit when you get it wrong, apologise when you overreact and communicate in an open, honest way, then they learn that this is how an adult conducts themselves and they try to do likewise. It isn't rocket science.

As a teacher. You are the parent we love. Supportive and putting boundaries in at home!
Do not back down! You are doing the right thing!!!

I think you need to look at the bigger picture here, you were quick to start blaming the teacher, you’re scared to go in his school bag, you’re scared to start off on a bad foot, he’s trying to manipulate you into extra phone time. Your son isn’t very pleasant and you’ve allowed it by obviously tippy toeing around him. He’s a 13 yr old child, stand your ground and parent him. Tbf he comes across as lazy and defiant with a meek mum prepared to excuse his behaviour.

I wonder if while not backing down you might help him a bit more?

Eg I wonder if you are very worried about your French and that I will be very disappointed with you and that is why you can't show me?

He's caught in some kind of awful bind and being 14 I doubt he really knows how to get himself out of it ....

What he wants- for me to call the school and ask for him to be moved to a different French class because he thinks his teacher is no good and moving classes will solve everything with no additional effort on his part. He has not given me any actual examples of what he is struggling with, what the teacher is not managing to explain, what sorts of things are happening in the class, just a general moan about how the teacher is rubbish.

What I want- to have half an idea what's going on before I contact the school with no facts to back up my case. I might not have got much anyway from his books but anything would have been more than nothing. I can't just phone the school and say Freddy says Madame Rouge is rubbish, can you move him to another class please.

So I guess the natural consequence of him not showing me his work is that I can't help him in the way that he wants. I'll give him his phone back after school and leave it at that.

I have handled this badly and will need to think differently when things like this come up in future.

I'd start a new conversation tonight - after seeing what the home mood is - about french and try and ignore the phone issue and not mention jotter directly.

I'd point out that it's extemely unlikely they have a qualified french teacher waiting in the wings to take over the class - even if the teacher was dire - it could well be a succession of supply teachers and that would be a long way down the line from now.

So you need to work with the current teacher - and a vauge do better isn't going to get any where - you need specific things to address - and if he suggest it's pointless with the teacher - even going about to department head you'd need specific problems to address.

I would also say he knows he can come to you for help - however you do thing extra work at home will be a good idea -

dulingo is free and good for general practise.

Memrise

If it is GCSE seneca

Tassomai have french GCSE

Other option buy some French Workbooks and set time to do them with you. We've had to do that with a subject that hasn't been covered properly and after initial resistance there seems to be relief.

I would assume from the reponse that they are in a spiral of struggling so doing less work so struggling and go from there.

I do get in these situations - it's then finding a way of getting around to the original problem.