Currently in a stand-off with my teenager

[Sewbean]

I have his phone and will not be giving it to him until he lets me see his French homework. His results in French have been pretty bad recently.

I'm not sure why he has chosen to make such a massive thing about this. He has been coming in and out of his room to rant about it since 8.30pm. That's almost 90 minutes he has wasted. He's been standing in the room whining non stop since 9.45, it's now 9.55 and he's still here going on about how horrible I am. I haven't said a single word. He knows very clearly what he needs to do, I am not backing down, I am not arguing.

I am however quietly going mad with the noise of him droning on and on. Usually he has given in long before this, I'm not sure what's got into him.

God he's hard work just now.

Also, It started off as a reasonably civil conversation about how he's not doing so well in French right now.

Hmmm. But WAS it reasonable? Was it HIM who came to you voluntarily to say he was struggling and needed your help? Or was it YOU cornering him and saying “you’re not doing so well in French at the moment so can you bring me your book so I can look at it please?”

The two are very different

WHY would you give him his phone in the morning? You have told him what he needs to do, and told him what the consequences are. A day at school without his phone may be exactly what he needs to realise that mum isn't an absolute pushover.

He has been complaining about his French teacher for a while. I think this is her first year teaching and she is struggling a bit. He has been asking me to help with various things recently because he is aware he is not learning as much as people in other classes.

Tonight I asked to see his books so I could get a feeling for how bad things have become, so that we could either work on it together or he or I could approach the school.

He actually wanted me to talk to the school. I said I needed to see what he has or hasn't been learning so I knew what to say. He said I didn't need to see, I just needed to speak to the school and tell them to fix it. I said I couldn't "tell them to fix it" if I didn't know what "it" was. And so it went on.

Picking a fight with me about absolutely nothing seems to be his entire purpose in life right now.

WHY would you give him his phone in the morning?

Because I can't bear another day starting the way this one has ended. Because he makes everyone miserable. The other kids suffer when there is so much tension between him and me.

I can't decide. I think if he is even half way nice in the morning I will give it back. If he starts on at me as soon as he gets up I might hold on to it till after school.

I need to go to bed now or I will be the one starting the day badly.

I just recently finished a 9 week course on positive parenting of teenagers. FFS. Clearly didn't do me any good.

You are doing your best. You're asking questions and examining what's working and what's not, you care for him and want this to go better. That's all anyone can do!

Reset it tomorrow. Great him warmly and kindly, if you feel able, and maybe say something like, we let the sun go down on a quarrel, let's start afresh today. That you worry about the strife coming between you, you're worried he feels so strongly and you're not understanding where he's coming from, and that these things are best talked about, and you'd like to speak with him about what went wrong between the two of you when he feels ready. And then leave it, until a time when it's ok to ask if you can speak with him about it. Maybe when you're out driving/walking/wherever outside the house, on neutral ground, with other points of focus so it's not a face off.

The point being, this hill is not worth it, and is getting neither of you anywhere positive. You both need a way to come back down that hill with mutual love and respect - very easy to say, I know. Really bloody hard to do. He probably can't even begin to start. There will be a way to help him, without capitulation - reframe it somehow, take the drone view on it.

It's not about the French. It's something else. Or it's not something else and he's just on one. Or it is the French and other things AND he's just on one. But starting again from a point of friendship could be a positive way forward for you both.

My youngest is 22. If I were to write a book about teenagers it would be about picking battles. Sounds like you did everything he asked... until you didn't! Their ability to to spiral is bizarre.

I'd give the phone back and start the day positively. Maybe message as he is on the way to school about a sit down at a time to suit you both. Remember at the end of the day he can do homework or not, work in class or not regardless of what you say or do. It sounds as though he wants your support so that's positive.

Sleep well. Tomorrow is another day!

Can't you locate the book whilst he sleeps?

I suppose you need to ask him why all of this so suddenly escalated, because I don't imagine he's had an enjoyable evening either. If he still won't tell you, keep the phone.

I found with my teens that turning things into a battle of wills was rarely successful. I think teen's egos are often very sensitive and having to back down can be really difficult for them.

When I de-escalated the situation and backed down myself (however much it annoyed me to do so!) I often found we could then get along perfectly civilly and address the issue.

Teens are fundamentally quite irrational. My eldest is now 22 and he's a bloody delight these days. You will come through this!

I actually think that sometimes parents get it wrong and it's perfectly fine to back down. Hold your hands up and say ok I made a mistake, this isn't helping, let's find another way.

I agree. I have a teenager, and she is incredibly stubborn. There is no point in getting into stand-offs with her because she simply won't back down. What's the point? It's much better to choose your battles.

You're the adult in this situation, and you need to diffuse the tension. It was probably wrong to take his phone in the first place, as it really has nothing to do with his French book. Taking something that he values is just a way of asserting your power over him, so it isn't surprising that he wants to push back. However, this really is not a hill worth dying on.

I'd give him the phone in the morning and say that you're concerned about the French but you realise that confiscating the phone wasn't helpful. Ask why he was so reluctant to show you the book. Hopefully, if you've backed down a bit, he might be willing to back down too. If he isn't, then I'd explain that you're going to have to talk to the school about your concerns because you can't think of any other way to move things forward. Then contact his teacher and find out what's going on.

Don't allow things to become about a battle of the wills unless you really have no other choice. Your relationship with your dc should be supportive, not adversarial. There is almost always a better way.

X post with cohle.

Hmm I agree with pp that this is not a hill worth dying on. He asked you to contact the school and you can't if you don't understand the issues. There is his consequence. He has to be willing to show you the jotter for you to 'fix it'. No jotter, no call to school. No further punishment required.

At the end of the day we're all trying to raise well rounded individuals so digging your heels in for another fight in the morning seems counterproductive. If it were me I would leave the phone in his room with a note saying you love him, are willing to help him but cannot do so unless he is willing to work with you. Then let him work it out for himself. Teenage hormones, all that testosterone running around means he needs to learn to handle that emotion and stress appropriately. You can only lead by example by standing firm without 'punishing' or being in a war with him. Good luck op, these teenage years are tough.

‘Picking a fight with me about absolutely nothing seems to be his entire purpose in life right now.‘ You have clearly abducted my son. Every single night I can see him gearing up for a fight for the sake of it. Any boundary or request is too much. I too am doing PPP- great if you really don’t know how to parent. I agree that sometimes you need to hold the line but this may not be the time. Hard as it is, they are trying to prove they don’t have to do what we say. Mine is also struggling at French and hugely resentful of me trying to help. I do regularly check books tho or I would have no idea what was going on and he would be in even worse state as he won’t ask for help at school.
The fear of a horrible morning is awful! I’m afraid phone confiscation is my only weapon tho sometimes I offer a way to earn it back. I am inclined to think the obstinacy is serving some function and will eventually dissipate. Good luck.

You seem to be putting 'being a people pleaser' above actual parenting.
Can't believe you are consider giving his phone back just because you can't bear to start a new day off on the wrong foot with him. That sounds sooo snowflakey and woke! You know it's not your fault it will be started on the wrong foot? it's his.

I also can't believe you won't just go and look at the bloody book. All this "oh it feels wrong to look at his stuff" err it's bloody schoolwork and if he is struggling you should be aware of what's going on whether he is embarrassed about it or not. You're not going to resolve his issues by not seeing his work.
You took a course in positive parenting for teens! Are you insecure in your parenting??

It's far more important to get to a place where the kid can actually talk to her about what he's struggling with than just to look at the books so taking them out of his bag would be pointlessly antagonistic at this point.
Don't give the phone back if he's arsey but if he agrees to talk about french even if he says he'll do it after school then give it back.

Your ds wants you to speak to the school. That’s what I’d do. Maybe they have resources for you - does your ds have any online resources from school? Dd has access to a lot of what she does online. For languages, this is basic information on what they’re learning, vocabulary, homework is also added etc. If you can’t, I’d be seeking information from the school about what topics he’s learning or where to access resources.

You can also buy the range of CGP KS3 french books and work through them together. Ultimately it is better to do something, which your ds will work on with you rather than try to force him into working in a way he doesn’t want to.

Personally, I actually think you should give him a lot of credit for being willing to work with you. Many many teens simply refuse to let their parents help them with studying and homework. It sounds as if you normally have a pretty good relationship.

I’d give him his phone back and say sorry things got really heated between you. Then approach it as a let’s make a plan together. I think maybe where you went wrong is that you tried to tell your ds how he should be learning, which fed into his vulnerabilities and embarrassment, rather than getting his agreement.

If you give him his phone back because you can't stand the atmosphere you're setting a huge precedent for the future. All that he will take from it is that 'mummy will give in if I'm horrible enough to her'.
Do not speak to him about the French jotter OR the phone this morning. If he asks for it, just say 'yes my dear, once I've seen your jotter'.
Either he'll hand it over or he'll rant at you and storm off to school. If it's the latter, then phone school up today and try to speak to the French teacher. She may well know what's wrong!
He gets the phone back when he shows you the jotter. You are NOT being unreasonable, you're being the parent in charge.

I would give him the phone back but only speak to him in french until I saw the jotter.

I would also have sneaked into his room in the night to find it.

I appreciate this isn't everyone's parenting style.

@LynetteScavo J’aime votre style

Don't allow things to become about a battle of the wills unless you really have no other choice. Your relationship with your dc should be supportive, not adversarial. There is almost always a better way.

^^ That

Secondary school students often like to push blame onto the teacher when things are often at least 50% their fault through lack of effort etc.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say he's been doing very little in class and the teacher isn't aware or is fighting larger battles and doesn't have the ability to pull him up on it.

I do think it's worth contacting his teacher to get her perception of the issue.

Or is it possible he's lost his book and doesn't want to admit this?

If you give him his phone back because you can't stand the atmosphere you're setting a huge precedent for the future. All that he will take from it is that 'mummy will give in if I'm horrible enough to her'.

He is 13, not 3.

One of the outs I offered him last night was

"Let me have a quick look at your book so I have an idea what I need to say to your teacher and I will give you your phone straight back. You can keep it an extra half-hour tonight because you've been without it for so long"

He said no.

This morning's conversation has gone like this

-Can I have my phone back?
-As soon as I've had a quick look at your book
-Why do you need to look at my book?
-So I have a rough idea what to say to your teacher
-Will I get my phone back once I've shown you?
-Yes
-Can I keep it for an extra half hour every night from now on?
-No, it needs to be turned off at the usual time
-Then I'm not showing you my book

He's now stormed off to school without his phone.

So he's willing to have no phone indefinitely because I won't let him have it for an extra half hour every night.

Tbh my DS is the same age and his books are shocking! He recently needed to revise for a test in science and asked me to test him so I looked in his books for subject/questions I could ask...there was nothing there! One word answers to questions that had apparently been on the board so no clue as to what that question might have been and all self assessed with no teacher marking at all
There will be questions asked at parents evening for sure but DS now knows what I expect as a minimum
Try and have a calm talk today-apologise for it all getting out of hand and let him know you will talk about it properly tonight.