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Anyone Medical - Awful situation - Please please help

190 replies

PearTreeParty · 18/11/2019 10:36

Posting here for traffic.

DF in hospital and we are allegedly at 'the end' but I am not sure if a mistake has been made....

I’ll try to keep the medical history brief, but it’s been eleven long months so distilling to the essentials is hard.

DF admitted to hospital due to shortness of breath. Fluid discovered around his lungs.
Lungs drained of litres of fluid, and sent home after a few days.
Within 24 hours, shortness of breath returned. Back to hospital
More fluid build up. Drained but kept returning. Doctors say that are going to think about a solution.
Four weeks later (regular draining) they are still ‘thinking’. They now say he has picked up an infection which makes some of their ideas more challenging.
Seven weeks of nothing happening other than DF weak due to prolonged stay, fluid on lungs and infection.
Doctor announces he will try to operate to glue the tear that is allowing fluid in – yay.
Hospital were surgery needs to happen has no beds, we have to wait. Meanwhile DF has to stay put (seems to be getting worse).
Hospital says he now has a kidney infection. They give him water tablets to try and flush it out.
TWELVE weeks later, there is a bed. He is moved.
New hospital says that he is too weak to operate due to being in hospital for 12 weeks. He has to get stronger…
DF rallies and tries to eat/sit up etc to get ‘stronger’. Water tablets continue
Hospital tell us that the water tablets weren’t a ‘great idea’ as they have not helped with the fluid. Not sure if they can operate.
He is returned to original hospital with no plan and a definite kidney issue.

At this point, I can’t go into everything that happens but cue 8 months of tinkering and experimenting with tablets and two ‘back and forth’ between hospitals where ultimately nothing happens.

Fast forward to two weeks ago. DF now very weak. Multiple bed sores, fluid on lungs and around other organs, kidneys very weak – wee very brown and minimal.

We keep encouraging him, telling him they know what they are doing, keep strong etc etc. DF trying to be a trooper but very tired. Odd spurts of appetite and energy. Perfectly coherent, frustrated but keeping the faith.

Two Monday’s ago, we went to visit in the morning and he was completely changed. His pupils were dilated, he could barely move and his speech was almost completely gone – like he had a huge tennis ball in his mouth. It was immediately apparent that he had suffered a stroke. I asked the nurse what had happened and he said he didn’t know. I asked for a Docotr but he wasn’t due till the afternoon. I found the head of the ward and told her that he had clearly suffered a stroke and was told that there was ‘’no record of this happening’. She wouldn’t look at him.

I waitied all afternoon for the consultant to do his rounds and when he came he examined DF and said if might be ‘thrush’ making his tongue fat…. I pointed out that he couldn’t move, and his pupils were fixed and dilated. It was also completely obvious that the speech wasn’t caused by thrush on his tongue (although I believe a tongue can swell as a result of a stroke). He was struggling to form simple words and hugely frustrated. They would not concede he had suffered a stroke or take him for a scan.

The next day he was worse. No speech. I told them he was worse. Nothing happened. This went on for five days. On the sixth day they scanned him and said it wasn’t clear that a stroke had happened (even though my DF is now ‘locked in’ unable to talk and now unable to see.

Eventually someone said in passing (rather than formally to us) that yes he had suffered a large stroke about a week ago followed by a series of smaller strokes so they would start administering blood thinners (too late obviously).

DF is now just lying there unable to communicate, see or move.

A week ago, they told us his kidneys had failed completely and there was a build up of potassium that would eventually cause his heart to stop. We asked what our options were and were told the kindest thing would be palliative care. We were already angry but in our devastation agreed to what ever was the least upsetting for DF at this stage. Last Tuesday, they took the fluid drip away and withdrew all the treatment they were giving him and told us it would probably take a few hours. A priest came. It is now Monday. He is exactly the same. Locked in staring at us. He has not died. His breathing is steady. No doctors come in to the room now because he is on ‘palliative care’ but I am terrified that they have made a mistake. Because of what has happened, I have no faith in anything that they say and I ask the nurses what they think and they shake their heads and say that what is happeing is ‘terrible’.

I don’t know what to think. I love the NHS, I am not interested in suing or trying to be litigious but I am scared to death that DF has had no fluid for 6 days now and this may be a terrible awful mistake.

Does anyone medical have ANY opinion that will either spur me to demand he is re-examined or give me some peace of mind? Thank you.

OP posts:
Emmapeeler1 · 18/11/2019 16:25

I also find this incredibly shocking. No advice sadly but sending moral support. I lost my DF this year because of, I believe, very unsatisfactory care by a GP practice. Nothing as traumatic as this horrendous situation but it has made me lose my faith in the NHS sadly. Take care of yourself and definitely contact PALS immediately.

scatterolight · 18/11/2019 16:45

Just terrible. So sorry OP.

Having been through similar with the NHS I give a hollow laugh when people assert it is the greatest health service in the world. It's a sickening shambles. It probably kills as many people as it saves.

I hope your dad has a peaceful end.

Sipperskipper · 18/11/2019 17:54

I hope PALS & the palliative care team are helpful OP. So sorry you have had such an awful experience.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Bigbopboo · 18/11/2019 18:31

I agree with some of the posters above. It sounds like your father is very unwell. Fluid doesn't build up on the lungs without an underlying reason such as heart, liver, kidney failure , cancer or severe infection.

If a patient is in kidney failure with too much fluid on board, the last thing you want to be doing is pouring in intravenous or subcutaneous fluids.

It sounds like there has been a lack of communication and also areas of poor care. There is no excuse for pressure sores. I would do as others have advised and contact PALS, and ask for a meeting with the ward team and palliative care teams. I'm not sure threats to sue would be that helpful. Take care.

kateandme · 18/11/2019 18:49

I'm so sorry.this sounds awful.im shocked.and by the end horrified.no matter what illness he did have and then on going infections there is deff lack of care,compassion and bloody doctoring going on here!
I want to circle u up and hold u tight.we've got you ok hun.we've all got u in our thoughts.

kateandme · 18/11/2019 18:51

scatterolight yep and I often see the bloody handful of # about it on Twitter,and I think "your f* kidding me right" we've had nothing bad bad experiences.

Medievalist · 18/11/2019 18:56

To all the posters who are horrified and appalled by this - WAKE UP. This is what the NHS is like now. Having had both my parents die long, miserable deaths exacerbated by breathtaking stupidity and a total lack of joined up thinking courtesy of the NHS in 2011 and 2016, this is not a new thing or unusual.

AutumnRose1 · 18/11/2019 19:04

@seymoursmyman. Thank you

I had to ask for those for my dad and I wasn’t sure what the previous poster meant. I found it ridiculous that I had to ask tbh. They responded very quickly but it still shouldn’t be up to the visitors to request this stuff.

OP in case it helps I asked for a mouth spray for dad when fluids were withdrawn as it helps with the dry mouth discomfort.

PearTreeParty · 18/11/2019 19:05

@Bigbopboo thank you. It really helps to believe that whilst communication is awful, there is a lack of joined up or continuity of care and zero compassion (from Doctors NOT nurses), the actual medical journey might have been unavoidable.

If I can hang onto this - the fact that even the most robust healthcare in the words couldn't have prevented any of this - the I might not lose my mind.

I am sat at his bedside now and it is heartbreaking to see him starring at nothing. He is silent but occasionally a tear spills out. I would not wish this on anyone.

OP posts:
Glacecherrychops · 18/11/2019 19:25

If I can hang onto this - the fact that even the most robust healthcare in the words couldn't have prevented any of this - the I might not lose my mind.

It sounds like your dad was very poorly, OP, with heart and kidney failure. Having kidney failure sends your blood pressure up, and makes you more likely to have a stroke.

It doesn't sound like there was anything anyone could have done to stop this happening. It does sound like the medical team haven't communicated with you well at times (although, as I said earlier, it may be that they have spoke to someone else like your mum. Doctors would aim to tell the next of kin, but would;'t update every relative, they would expect the NOK to pass on the information.)

It sounds like speaking to PALS will help bring you closure. Focus on being with your dad in his last days, the hospital should support you all through it.

Windygate · 18/11/2019 19:30

I'm going to hazard a guess that your DF is 80+
So much of your post echoes the path we went down with our DF. Disinterested medical staff gave up on DF almost as soon as he was admitted. Denying that he has sepsis as 'we don't have sepsis on this ward'. We made a fuss and he did indeed have sepsis and subsequent organ failure. We complained and 'lessons have been learnt'
After many weeks on the end of life path he finally died.

Were lessons learnt? No, we walked the same path a few weeks later with DSF.
I'm so sorry your family are going through this terrible time.

mumwon · 18/11/2019 19:42

request copy of his medical records correlate what they say with what you know happened
read carefully - if anything comes up you don't understand either contact charity that deal with medical issue concerned/or look on the web (not forums!!!) on sites such as NHS, or books on anatomy -
do formal letter of complaint to hospital - put these incidents down in bullet points with dates
there are charities which will help you with this

mumwon · 18/11/2019 19:45

Oh! & make sure anything you send is signed for & recorded
& write formal letter to PALS (if email make sure you tick email arrived not opened (dd told me that you can get rid of the read email but not the arrived at the address one - interesting!)

whattodo2019 · 18/11/2019 19:47

I didn't want to read and run
You are a wonderful friend. Thanks

mumwon · 18/11/2019 19:51

Lesson have been learnt quote is cue for me wanting to throw something at someone. (a child development doctor who after 10 years finally agreed to dd being sent for autism diagnosis said this- naturally she had asd) - I ground my teeth at that one & the female doctor always referred to me as mother - but in pp situation - I am so sorry that's just beyond any comment.

Windygate · 18/11/2019 20:03

@Medievalist you have summed it up perfectly. The NHS gave up on both my loved ones and left them to die in distress.

HeyPizza · 18/11/2019 20:06

So sorry for what you are going through. I used to work in the NHS and I have to say, unfortunately, this kind of disjointed care is commonplace. The political parties who keep saying they will inject more money into the NHS haven't got a clue; it needs money, but it needs to be much better managed.

It sounds as though your DF had a pleural effusion (fluid on the lungs) for which they didn't have a cause. Effusions can be difficult to establish a cause for in some cases. Procedures to stop the fluid building up (I'm guessing some form of pleurodesis) can be quite specialised, so I imagine he was on a waiting list for a tertiary hospital in London. I'm surprised it took so many months for this procedure to get done (in London).

It could all be due to heart failure or renal disease, but I imagine that this would have been easy to diagnose on the results of the fluid analysis. His doctors should be able to tell you this much.

Regardless of the underlying cause, it sounds as though he got more and more frail over time, and the fluid shifts in the body can put more strain on the kidneys overall. Appalling behaviour of the nurse who wouldn't act on a suspected stroke.

It won't make it easier, but at this stage, it sounds as though things have progressed too far for recovery. But you deserve answers.

Doctors used to work in teams, yes longer hours, but more of a team dynamic. Nowadays they are more like shift workers, and the system is so screwed up that no matter how much money goes into the NHS, it will get sucked up into the vacuum without noticeable improvements for patients.

Again, really so sorry to hear about this; I am writing about my interpretation of what you have said, but I'm long out of the medical system. You need to ask the ward nurse who is the Consultant in charge of your DF, and first thing tomorrow, call said Consultant's secretary and demand a meeting with him/her.

Write out a list of questions before you go in (things like, what was the initial diagnosis, why didn't they push for the procedure earlier, who made the decision re palliative care and why weren't you told, why was he neglected when he had clearly deteriorated etc etc). If you don't have any luck, ask the secretary or PALS who the medical director is of the hospital, and again, demand an appointment to see them. Sorry it's really tough to get through, and this is the last thing you need on top of the pain you're going through, but you need to get angry (I am, and I don't even know you).

Lastly (and sorry it's an essay), do try to make sure that palliative care have been called to see him - all trusts have a palliative care team, and they should be able to see him the same day (at least the nurse, if the Consultant isn't around).

Oliversmumsarmy · 18/11/2019 20:33

To all the posters who are horrified and appalled by this - WAKE UP. This is what the NHS is like now. Having had both my parents die long, miserable deaths exacerbated by breathtaking stupidity and a total lack of joined up thinking courtesy of the NHS in 2011 and 2016, this is not a new thing or unusual

Dp has been in and out of hospital and as I said upthread it isn’t exactly surprising or unusual what Dp has seen has left him really fearful for the future.
The last time Dp was in hospital he witnessed a guy screaming for help because he couldn’t breathe. No one came and he died.

Then 2 nurses having a massive argument on the ward which resulted in punching each other and rolling around the floor trying to tear each other’s hair out.

Dp says it is like the Wild West

ohfourfoxache · 18/11/2019 20:34

Pear does he like any particular music? You could pop an earbud headphone thing in 1 ear (both ears if you think that would be best) and he could at least be able to listen to something he likes.

If he has a favourite aftershave you could also dab that on - something familiar will be comforting

And keep talking to him if you have the strength, he will know you’re there x

madcatladyforever · 18/11/2019 20:38

Dear OP, I'm so sorry, I was a nurse for 30 years and in my opinion even before the stroke it was time.
There is no cure for someone that ill, he has come to his natural end and I believe even if he had had the treatment in time it still would have been too late. I'm so sorry Flowers

absopugginglutely · 18/11/2019 20:52

Oh my god, I can not believe what your poor dad has been through, how utterly heart breaking for you all Sad
My mum had really inconsistent awful end of life care but we weren’t even told she was end of life because it “was the weekend” so no Drs about on her oncology ward.
Three years on I haven’t complained because I am worried about opening those anger flood gates.
So sorry for what you are going through Flowers

RageAgainstTheVendingMachine · 18/11/2019 21:05

This is what the NHS is like now
Not all of it. Not everywhere.
I went to A+E two weeks ago. I was very badly injured with a gaping wound head injury. Five individuals, in the face of adversity (child in resus that morning) were bloody phenomenal.
That does not make what the OP and her dad is going through any less awful - it is awful - but there are some wonderful teams out there keeping departments going despite cuts and staff number.

Horsemad · 18/11/2019 21:17

I am so sorry to read this; your poor Dad and poor you having to witness it all.

No medical experience so I would advise demanding a meeting with his consultant and also with the Palliative Nurse and getting some answers to questions.

Ohfourfoxache has some good suggestions to try and soothe your Dad. Talk to him; he can still hear you, even if he can't acknowledge. ♥️

Medievalist · 18/11/2019 22:07

Rage - A and E is a different kettle of fish so I should have been more specific. What the op is going through is typical of the end of life treatment the elderly receive in hospital. I could write a book on it.

I'm so sorry you're going through this op Thanks

Oliversmumsarmy · 18/11/2019 23:36

RageAgainstTheVendingMachine

Try being on a ward and then you see what really goes on

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