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Anyone Medical - Awful situation - Please please help

190 replies

PearTreeParty · 18/11/2019 10:36

Posting here for traffic.

DF in hospital and we are allegedly at 'the end' but I am not sure if a mistake has been made....

I’ll try to keep the medical history brief, but it’s been eleven long months so distilling to the essentials is hard.

DF admitted to hospital due to shortness of breath. Fluid discovered around his lungs.
Lungs drained of litres of fluid, and sent home after a few days.
Within 24 hours, shortness of breath returned. Back to hospital
More fluid build up. Drained but kept returning. Doctors say that are going to think about a solution.
Four weeks later (regular draining) they are still ‘thinking’. They now say he has picked up an infection which makes some of their ideas more challenging.
Seven weeks of nothing happening other than DF weak due to prolonged stay, fluid on lungs and infection.
Doctor announces he will try to operate to glue the tear that is allowing fluid in – yay.
Hospital were surgery needs to happen has no beds, we have to wait. Meanwhile DF has to stay put (seems to be getting worse).
Hospital says he now has a kidney infection. They give him water tablets to try and flush it out.
TWELVE weeks later, there is a bed. He is moved.
New hospital says that he is too weak to operate due to being in hospital for 12 weeks. He has to get stronger…
DF rallies and tries to eat/sit up etc to get ‘stronger’. Water tablets continue
Hospital tell us that the water tablets weren’t a ‘great idea’ as they have not helped with the fluid. Not sure if they can operate.
He is returned to original hospital with no plan and a definite kidney issue.

At this point, I can’t go into everything that happens but cue 8 months of tinkering and experimenting with tablets and two ‘back and forth’ between hospitals where ultimately nothing happens.

Fast forward to two weeks ago. DF now very weak. Multiple bed sores, fluid on lungs and around other organs, kidneys very weak – wee very brown and minimal.

We keep encouraging him, telling him they know what they are doing, keep strong etc etc. DF trying to be a trooper but very tired. Odd spurts of appetite and energy. Perfectly coherent, frustrated but keeping the faith.

Two Monday’s ago, we went to visit in the morning and he was completely changed. His pupils were dilated, he could barely move and his speech was almost completely gone – like he had a huge tennis ball in his mouth. It was immediately apparent that he had suffered a stroke. I asked the nurse what had happened and he said he didn’t know. I asked for a Docotr but he wasn’t due till the afternoon. I found the head of the ward and told her that he had clearly suffered a stroke and was told that there was ‘’no record of this happening’. She wouldn’t look at him.

I waitied all afternoon for the consultant to do his rounds and when he came he examined DF and said if might be ‘thrush’ making his tongue fat…. I pointed out that he couldn’t move, and his pupils were fixed and dilated. It was also completely obvious that the speech wasn’t caused by thrush on his tongue (although I believe a tongue can swell as a result of a stroke). He was struggling to form simple words and hugely frustrated. They would not concede he had suffered a stroke or take him for a scan.

The next day he was worse. No speech. I told them he was worse. Nothing happened. This went on for five days. On the sixth day they scanned him and said it wasn’t clear that a stroke had happened (even though my DF is now ‘locked in’ unable to talk and now unable to see.

Eventually someone said in passing (rather than formally to us) that yes he had suffered a large stroke about a week ago followed by a series of smaller strokes so they would start administering blood thinners (too late obviously).

DF is now just lying there unable to communicate, see or move.

A week ago, they told us his kidneys had failed completely and there was a build up of potassium that would eventually cause his heart to stop. We asked what our options were and were told the kindest thing would be palliative care. We were already angry but in our devastation agreed to what ever was the least upsetting for DF at this stage. Last Tuesday, they took the fluid drip away and withdrew all the treatment they were giving him and told us it would probably take a few hours. A priest came. It is now Monday. He is exactly the same. Locked in staring at us. He has not died. His breathing is steady. No doctors come in to the room now because he is on ‘palliative care’ but I am terrified that they have made a mistake. Because of what has happened, I have no faith in anything that they say and I ask the nurses what they think and they shake their heads and say that what is happeing is ‘terrible’.

I don’t know what to think. I love the NHS, I am not interested in suing or trying to be litigious but I am scared to death that DF has had no fluid for 6 days now and this may be a terrible awful mistake.

Does anyone medical have ANY opinion that will either spur me to demand he is re-examined or give me some peace of mind? Thank you.

OP posts:
jellyjellyinmybelly · 18/11/2019 14:21

Go to pals in person and get them to help you. You need an advocate to help!

JoObrien7 · 18/11/2019 14:24

I would contact your local hospice and tell them about his situation if I was you.

Butterfly02 · 18/11/2019 14:26

'Just in case meds' are known as pre-emtive prescribing in our area.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Glacecherrychops · 18/11/2019 14:41

How old is he OP?

It sounds like his health has been failing for a while. The 'fluid on his lungs' - this sounds like it could have been heart failure (as it was treated with water tablets.)

Then his kidneys have started to fail. We call this cardioreanl syndrome, and is very difficult to treat.

Then he has had a series of strokes.

Now he is approaching the end of his life. It sounds like multiple things have happened with regards to his health, and it's not that one thing has been missed that could have prevented his deterioration.

The 'tinkering' the doctors were doing was most likely givving him medications to try and slow the deterioration down, in the absence of a cure.

Has he always been in good health?

I'm so sorry for the awful time you are having Flowers

I

bubs80 · 18/11/2019 14:54

Nurse here also please go to PALS today and urge that you need a case conference with consultant and palliative team.

jessycake · 18/11/2019 14:58

The NHS is honestly on its knees, starved of funds and it is getting worse and worse it feels like there a dozen different teams within the hospital making and changing decisions, nothing is joined up . Complain not just for your dad but for anyone one else unfortunate enough to be suffering , my heart goes out to you x

FabbyChix · 18/11/2019 14:58

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

FabbyChix · 18/11/2019 14:59

I’d also contact any newspaper you can and your mp today

Longfacenow · 18/11/2019 15:00

Fabby- I'm sure your heart is in the right place but this might be the most awful thing to read in OPs shoes today.

longtimelurkerhelen · 18/11/2019 15:07

So sorry to hear this lack of care from an NHS hospital. Flowers

If it is the Queen Elizabeth in Woolwich, there is a facebook page with members who may be able to help you or point you in the right direction for help. The group is called QE PATIENT FORUM you will need to request to join as it is a private group. Many members there have also been failed by QE.

Hope you get some answers soon.

Glacecherrychops · 18/11/2019 15:16

People really need more information before they start advising the OP to sue Hmm

If the OP's dad is in his 90s and his health has been failing this year.

Often relatives are distraught as they believe things aren;t being done, when they are being done, but nobody has told them. And often, it's not that the medical team haven't told anyone, they've told the next of kin who hasn't passed on the information, or become confused about it.

OP - is your dad in pain, or distressed, or suffering from secretions in his airways? If so - press the buzzer, and ask the nurse that he have some medication for it as soon as possible. You are there with him, and can help advocate for him so that he passes peacefully, without suffering. That's something we would all want, when our time came.

Flowers
EleanorLavish · 18/11/2019 15:19

I'm a front line NHS nurse and this is nothing to do with funding.
Its shit leadership, and useless ward sisters , who promote slack nursing and medical care. I'm sure they blame staff shortages and funding, but staff shortages do not cause this type of care over this time frame.
Fabbychic I'd ask for your comment to be deleted, its rather insensitive.

Hallloumi · 18/11/2019 15:23

a GP here.
I agree with glacecherrychops (who sounds like they are a doctor or a nurse).
It sounds as though no-one managed to explain (maybe because they didn't know) the reason his lungs kept accumulating fluid- ? heart failure ? a different reason. Generally if this happens repeatedly the treatments only control it and it will keep recurring.

Now it does sound like he has reached the end of his life. If he is unable to swallow and has other serious medical problems then usually it is felt to be reasonable to withdraw intravenous fluids. However he does need good palliative care which you may need to advocate for.

It also sound like you will have lots of questions about what has happened in the past year which PALS may be able to help you with.

Best wishes.

Justaboy · 18/11/2019 15:30

I'm a front line NHS nurse and this is nothing to do with funding.
Its shit leadership, and useless ward sisters , who promote slack nursing and medical care

Sorry but i have to agree with you!

I was in hospital some years ago a very big one and connected with a top notch university and even there they needed shall we say, "managing" a bit and then some, as good as the old NHS is managment isnt the best around very sad to say.

I think though your dads life is coming to an end and he would be way better off in a hospice can you see if you can get him moved for his sake?

AllDaySnacker · 18/11/2019 15:34

@PearTreeParty

I am so sorry this is happening to you and your DF. There are issues in the earlier part of the illness that you can ask for clarification about later, but those will not contribute to DF care at this point. Right now, the problem at hand is your perception of his discomfort, not having had fluids, with sores and him not being able to vocalise.

Palliative Care means keeping the patient as comfortable as possible at the end, by removing unnecessary treatments and only providing support and comfort for basic needs, including hygiene, pain control and sometimes fluids to prevent the horrid feeling of prolonged thirst. The palliative care measures for each person differs, and should be tailored to suit DF. It certainly doesn’t mean that he gets nothing at all, and no visit during the ward round / nurse round. That is wrong.

You have tried escalating in a polite way. I would suggest you approach PALS again and say you intend to escalate this urgently, also ask the nursing staff on the ward to contact his medical team to review him with reference to your worries re his comfort. They should see him as soon as they can get to him, and assess him, and also explain their management plan / rationale to you and your family, so be contactable for this.

Your DF should not suffer at the terminal stages, so you have a right to take this up with the Consultant, the Clinical Director of the specialty, the Medical Director of the hospital and CEO if you have to. Nobody deserves the lack of care you have described. If this happened to my relative I would threaten to sue. I probably wouldn’t, but the threat gets people moving.

ptumbi · 18/11/2019 15:39

OP - you might not 'want to sue' but I would start taking Names, photos, notes on what has happened ... start making a noise about taking them, too.

Start with the name of the Nurse who wanted to give him yogurt. take photos of mattress, sores, everything you can think of.

It might make them think you are willing to sue, even if you don't. And you will need to have evidence for PALS, as they well know.

PearTreeParty · 18/11/2019 15:53

@seymoursmyman and @Hallloumi

Thank you for sharing your professional opinions. In a way it has comforted me as I can handle the poor communication but not the idea that something was missed.

However, prior to his first admission eleven months ago, he was a very young and active 75 year old who travelled, ate out, pursued hobbies and was in no way frail or sick in any way. I believe that if a bed had been available when surgery to repair the tear was first suggested, we would be in a very different place now. And I can even live with that.

What I am struggling with the feeling of being 'fobbed off' as though I am trying to repair a pair of shoes that have fallen apart, rather than advocate for the life and care of my DF. The shocking lack of communication between staff - even from one consultant to another, and the open refusal to accept truths that are clear for everyone to see.

This is what is eating me up because I cannot currently say "we did everything we could" because I have no fucking clue if we did or didn't.

Sorry.
I am just so angry and upset.

And thank you to all of you for sharing your views and stories.

I think we will be going back to try and talk to PALS later today and I have asked for someone from the Palliative Care team to come up to the ward....

OP posts:
ViciousJackdaw · 18/11/2019 15:59

You absolutely MUST speak to PALS today, be it in person or over the phone. When you speak to them, you ABSOLUTELY MUST threaten to sue

Follow this conversation up with an email, again threatening to sue. If you get the answerphone, leave a message suggesting legal action. If you only get to speak to a 'gatekeeper', tell them you will sue and sound like you bloody well mean it.

I am sorry to sound all forthright and stroppy, I know this isn't what you need from other people right now. But believe me, this is the only way you will be heard.

PearTreeParty · 18/11/2019 16:08

@EleanorLavish I agree. That's something we've said amongst ourselves a few times. Nearly all the nurses are lovely, kind and well-meaning but there does not seem to be anyone leading by example in care-standards. There is no continuity, no-one 'in charge'. No ward-sister noticing that there has been a dramatic change in his well-being overnight and alerting a doctor. There are a few nurses that have watched him deteriorate (one of whom was furious that they wouldn't scan him for a stroke the very first day he lost his speach), but also a lot of agency nurses and new faces everyday that have no yardstick with which to compare. I am not sure how you CAN nurse effectively if you are not witness to someone's ever changing state. Yes, there is data and charts, but no human barometer and it's a real shame.

Waiting for someone from the Palliative care team now.

OP posts:
needsahouseboy · 18/11/2019 16:08

That is appalling care. No way should he have been left without fluids.

I’m so sorry. I also don’t know what the nurses were doing as I’d be kicking up a fuss with the Drs if I was his nurse. All of it is bad.

NormaBean · 18/11/2019 16:09

Sorry. I am just so angry and upset.

Don’t apologise, OP. Get it all off your chest.

The more information you give the more advice you’ll receive. I really hope some amazing nurses/doctors are PMing you and helping you to get a plan of action together.

I wonder if it may be worth sharing the name of the hospital to one of them in PM just in case they know people who can help there.

needsahouseboy · 18/11/2019 16:11

By the way I’m a nurse and I sued the NHS, they nearly killed me with incompetence and it changed me as a person and impacted on my career path.

needsahouseboy · 18/11/2019 16:12

These are who I used. They were wonderful and thankfully the GMC also struck the Dr off the register.
www.avma.org.uk/

needsahouseboy · 18/11/2019 16:13

I would also make a request for a copy of his medical notes.

CottonSock · 18/11/2019 16:23

I hope you get some help today, to get your df comfortable.

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