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Anyone Medical - Awful situation - Please please help

190 replies

PearTreeParty · 18/11/2019 10:36

Posting here for traffic.

DF in hospital and we are allegedly at 'the end' but I am not sure if a mistake has been made....

I’ll try to keep the medical history brief, but it’s been eleven long months so distilling to the essentials is hard.

DF admitted to hospital due to shortness of breath. Fluid discovered around his lungs.
Lungs drained of litres of fluid, and sent home after a few days.
Within 24 hours, shortness of breath returned. Back to hospital
More fluid build up. Drained but kept returning. Doctors say that are going to think about a solution.
Four weeks later (regular draining) they are still ‘thinking’. They now say he has picked up an infection which makes some of their ideas more challenging.
Seven weeks of nothing happening other than DF weak due to prolonged stay, fluid on lungs and infection.
Doctor announces he will try to operate to glue the tear that is allowing fluid in – yay.
Hospital were surgery needs to happen has no beds, we have to wait. Meanwhile DF has to stay put (seems to be getting worse).
Hospital says he now has a kidney infection. They give him water tablets to try and flush it out.
TWELVE weeks later, there is a bed. He is moved.
New hospital says that he is too weak to operate due to being in hospital for 12 weeks. He has to get stronger…
DF rallies and tries to eat/sit up etc to get ‘stronger’. Water tablets continue
Hospital tell us that the water tablets weren’t a ‘great idea’ as they have not helped with the fluid. Not sure if they can operate.
He is returned to original hospital with no plan and a definite kidney issue.

At this point, I can’t go into everything that happens but cue 8 months of tinkering and experimenting with tablets and two ‘back and forth’ between hospitals where ultimately nothing happens.

Fast forward to two weeks ago. DF now very weak. Multiple bed sores, fluid on lungs and around other organs, kidneys very weak – wee very brown and minimal.

We keep encouraging him, telling him they know what they are doing, keep strong etc etc. DF trying to be a trooper but very tired. Odd spurts of appetite and energy. Perfectly coherent, frustrated but keeping the faith.

Two Monday’s ago, we went to visit in the morning and he was completely changed. His pupils were dilated, he could barely move and his speech was almost completely gone – like he had a huge tennis ball in his mouth. It was immediately apparent that he had suffered a stroke. I asked the nurse what had happened and he said he didn’t know. I asked for a Docotr but he wasn’t due till the afternoon. I found the head of the ward and told her that he had clearly suffered a stroke and was told that there was ‘’no record of this happening’. She wouldn’t look at him.

I waitied all afternoon for the consultant to do his rounds and when he came he examined DF and said if might be ‘thrush’ making his tongue fat…. I pointed out that he couldn’t move, and his pupils were fixed and dilated. It was also completely obvious that the speech wasn’t caused by thrush on his tongue (although I believe a tongue can swell as a result of a stroke). He was struggling to form simple words and hugely frustrated. They would not concede he had suffered a stroke or take him for a scan.

The next day he was worse. No speech. I told them he was worse. Nothing happened. This went on for five days. On the sixth day they scanned him and said it wasn’t clear that a stroke had happened (even though my DF is now ‘locked in’ unable to talk and now unable to see.

Eventually someone said in passing (rather than formally to us) that yes he had suffered a large stroke about a week ago followed by a series of smaller strokes so they would start administering blood thinners (too late obviously).

DF is now just lying there unable to communicate, see or move.

A week ago, they told us his kidneys had failed completely and there was a build up of potassium that would eventually cause his heart to stop. We asked what our options were and were told the kindest thing would be palliative care. We were already angry but in our devastation agreed to what ever was the least upsetting for DF at this stage. Last Tuesday, they took the fluid drip away and withdrew all the treatment they were giving him and told us it would probably take a few hours. A priest came. It is now Monday. He is exactly the same. Locked in staring at us. He has not died. His breathing is steady. No doctors come in to the room now because he is on ‘palliative care’ but I am terrified that they have made a mistake. Because of what has happened, I have no faith in anything that they say and I ask the nurses what they think and they shake their heads and say that what is happeing is ‘terrible’.

I don’t know what to think. I love the NHS, I am not interested in suing or trying to be litigious but I am scared to death that DF has had no fluid for 6 days now and this may be a terrible awful mistake.

Does anyone medical have ANY opinion that will either spur me to demand he is re-examined or give me some peace of mind? Thank you.

OP posts:
Span1elsRock · 18/11/2019 13:28

No advice OP other than to start making a very loud fuss on the ward and demanding that a Consultant does an immediate review.

I'm so sorry for what you are going through Flowers

Cocolapew · 18/11/2019 13:34

That is horrendous, I'm so sorry and hope you get some answers quickly Flowers

Borderterrierpuppy · 18/11/2019 13:37

Hi Op
This all sounds awful, really disjointed care and still no original diagnosis??
I would go in and speak to his consultant, let the, know how unhappy you are with this chain of events.
I would ask for an urgent 2 nd opinion, I would contact pals.
So sorry x

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Sistercharlie · 18/11/2019 13:40

Hi op. I am so sorry you are going through this.

My late father's treatment was slightly better overall than your father's (and we always knew his condition was incurable) but we had similar issues with regard to his treatment in the NHS specifically in relation to communication between staff members who didn't communicate with my df (when he was totally mentally astute) didn't include us in the conversations about this care, didn't seem to communicate between themselves, and often seemed to contradict one another.

The only reason his care improved was because we fought to get him a place in the local hospice where he was treated wonderfully well until the end.

I don't know if this will be any help or is the right sort of thing but there seem to be some quite useful contacts (such as AGE UK advocacy) at the foot of the page here. Good luck and stay strong Flowers.

LarkDescending · 18/11/2019 13:40

This is horrifying OP - I am so sorry. Can you go to PALS in person and beg for help, if they're open? E.g. at UCH they are open Mon, Tues, Thur, Fri 9am-4pm; not sure about other hospitals.

Or do the sympathetic nurses have any suggestions for you?

I do hope you get some answers for your poor DF Flowers

NaToth · 18/11/2019 13:41

This has parallels with the treatment (or lack of it) meted out to my late MIL earlier this year. Bang the table OP. Insist on speaking to those ultimately responsible for your DF's care and insist on having straight answers.

You may have to be persistent. It took us three days to find someone to talk to who could arrange for us to see the consultant. She was the first staff member to make eye contact with us. All the others had just walked away, apart from the junior doctor who blatantly lied to us.

Sistercharlie · 18/11/2019 13:43

Meant to say if advocates aren't the right sort of people to deal with this sort of issue then AGE UK might be a good place to start looking for the right person Flowers

PearTreeParty · 18/11/2019 13:50

@ohfourfoxache . Thank you for the PM, I have replied.

I don't want to say where he is right now - I don't really know why but it would identify him to anyone working there and for some silly reason I feel like this would make things worse for him. It's a big London hospital.

@trixiebelden77 . I wish you were his Doctor. I can assure you that as soon as I saw him post his first stroke, I asked them to page his Doctor and he was apparently not in building and unavailable until the afternoon. A nurse did look at him but told me that she was unable to diagnose a stroke without the Doctor. When I asked her to look at him and diagnose him based on her eyes and common sense, she said "it could be a stroke but she wouldn't like to say".

I feel like every time someone opens their mouth, they are covering their arses. I don't want to sue. I don't want to complain, i just want to be confident that they have tried the RIGHT things and EVERYTHING that they can, and right now, I don't believe that at all.

My DH is there now. He has just spoken to the consultant doing the rounds and asked him a few questions which he said he will talk to me about when I get there later. But basically more of the same - "We can't really be sure / he'll go when he's ready / sorry that the nurses weren't aware he is now on palliative care only / we'll write it on the white-board / no, it doesn't say stroke in his records because we don't have medical evidence / yes we know he had a stroke / no we won't add it to the notes"

And so on....

I am going there in an hour so will see what exactly has been said, but I don't have any hope for anything. Not even a gentle death now.

OP posts:
CiliatedEpithilium · 18/11/2019 13:54

This is pretty standard 'care' in the NHS nowadays to be honest.

Supersimkin2 · 18/11/2019 13:57

I am so terribly sorry for you and your father OP. Flowers to you both.

This is horrifying, shocking and all too common now. Can you get him moved to a hospice?

Their nursing is a lot better and they may bring him to a condition where he gets better. Either way, you'll get health care, which isn't happening now.

Call Trinity Hospice 7787 1000 if you're in South or West London - they saved the lives of two people I know.

Cornishclio · 18/11/2019 13:59

Appalling treatment. So sorry OP and hope your DF gets the peaceful end he deserves. Difficult to know what to do about the mistakes but I would definitely complain. It might not make any difference now for your DF but might stop other families going through the same. From all accounts though the NHS is at crisis point and patients need people advocating for them. You have done nothing wrong.

Boysey45 · 18/11/2019 14:01

How dreadful, wishing you strength at the difficult time OP.
Someone I know was told their relative was dead and to crack on with funeral arrangements etc and they were still alive!.
They were still breathing etc and the family could see it and the nurses and Drs were saying it was just last breaths etc. She lived another month or so after that. So nothing surprises me anymore.

AnnieOH1 · 18/11/2019 14:02

I would bypass PALS in this instance and go straight to the Chief Executive's office. Be aware that the NHS Trust will close ranks quickly (from experience) so you'll need to make sure you have as much evidence as possible now.

Does your father have a power of attorney for health and welfare?

I suggest you seek legal advice from a specialist law firm dealing in medical negligence.

Your father's treatment has been appalling but is sadly indicative of many wards and departments across a variety of hospitals across the country. The reasons for that are myriad but ultimately care professionals should not behave in the way they appear to have in your father's case.

You mentioned bedsores - is he on an appropriate mattress? Is he being turned? Have the sores been formally recorded and photographed? Have they been staged?

Remember to take care of yourself and your family, and lean on those around you if you can. You've got two massive things to deal with right now, potential litigation against the Trust to not only attempt to correct the care your father is receiving immediately but also potentially to pursue them to hopefully ensure such things don't happen again, and more importantly you've also got to deal with your father's failing health and likely passing. Those are huge undertakings to your physical and emotional health, please don't forget about yourself.

CiliatedEpithilium · 18/11/2019 14:06

My DDad broke his hip. He was prescribed a drip on day one but didn't get it. They starved him repeatedly for the op and then decided he was too dehydrated for surgery. I went nuts on day five when I visited him and he still had not had surgery and looked like a walnut because he still had not eaten or drunk and had not been given his drip. He got his surgery but had I not gone nuts they would have left him to die I am convinced of it.
I am now looking at old age and the thought of aging in this country terrifies me quite frankly.

seymoursmyman · 18/11/2019 14:08

I have read your OP a couple of times before responding.
I am also a nurse and regularly participate in palliative care especially in people whose kidneys are not working.
Firstly, I am so very sorry at the lack of communication and cohesion in your DF's care to this point.
Going only on the information you have provided I do believe that palliative care Is the right pathway at this point. It is difficult not to focus on the many moments in the past that may or may not have led to a different outcome.
Your concerns are entirely valid, I will say that removing a fluid drip in this case is correct as it would hasten the fluid accumulation in the lungs as the kidneys are no longer removing it.
Questions to ask specifically, have they prescribed what we call "just in case meds".
Definitely ask them to page the palliative care nurse as soon as you go in today. You would benefit greatly from speaking to them greatly.
Lastly, you are currently going through one of the worst experiences that there is. You are advocating for your father, and I know from experience that not every patient has family willing to put themselves through this trauma. More people than you would believe go through their last days/hours alone.
I hope this helps in Some small way.

AutumnRose1 · 18/11/2019 14:10

@seymoursmyman. I think it would help OP to know what you mean by “just in case” meds?

Lockshunkugel · 18/11/2019 14:10

I found that naming and shaming the hospital on twitter got a very quick reaction from PALS when a family member wasn’t getting proper treatment. Sometimes you have to make a huge fuss to get what is necessary.

I’m sorry that your father is so ill. I agree with pp that a hospice would make him more comfortable.

CatherineOfAragonsPrayerBook · 18/11/2019 14:10

I don't want to complain, i just want to be confident that they have tried the RIGHT things and EVERYTHING that they can, and right now, I don't believe that at all

I understand this, having received appalling care myself, and done nothing out of gratitude for any help, one keeps thinking but it's the NHS and they're stretched, consultants are busy people etc etc.

But let me tell you I have a family member who is an excellent nurse, and cannot stand to see things like this, and he would be telling you to make a huge fuss and threaten loudly to sue.

He was in a different hospital himself once, and he demanded better care and got it, because he knows what the standard practice is meant to be. I inwardly cringed the entire time he demanded doctors and complained. But things improved rapidly.

You need to step outside your comfort zone and be bolshy. As regards PALS, honestly I would only be contacting them now with a view to demanding a complete review of your DF care and how you go about this, then put in an official complaint outlining everything you have said here.

If you don't complain practice can't be improved for some other poor sod.

So sorry you are going through this Flowers

JoObrien7 · 18/11/2019 14:10

It sound like he is being neglected because he is terminal ... can you get him into a hospice?

JoObrien7 · 18/11/2019 14:11

He could be also be nursed at home why don't you contact his GP?

TheBouquets · 18/11/2019 14:13

I am so sorry to hear about what you and DF are going through with his treatment at whatever hospital this is happening in.
I experienced very similar conduct when my DF was in the last days of his life. Hospital staff are awful. They have a responsibility of care to the family of the patient and they should not have done a lot of things that they did and got away with.
I am not a great believer in "sue the Bs" but if that is what it takes to get things changed for your DF and all the other older people who will go into that hospital then so be it.

Honeyroar · 18/11/2019 14:14

I'm so sorry to read your posts. What an absolute nightmare for all of you. My husband, best friend and mother have been very ill this year, resulting in several hospital stays, and emergency operations, sepsis DVTs, etc. My best friend died. She was transferred to a hospice for the last fortnight, which was a much more peaceful, respectful place, far from the dramas of the hospital. I'd look into that if its at all possible to move him. During the weeks I've spent sitting with my husband at hospital this year, plus the others, I've come to the conclusion that the NHS is seriously on the verge of collapse and hospitals are quite scary. A lot of the nurses on wards are students, and some of those are quite cocky in their opinions, others are nervous. The hospitals have "targets, buzzwords and aims" that they get in trouble for if they miss. They get distracted by these things when they should be nursing. I came in to find a nurse telling my husband he was lazy and needed to get up for a shower one day, despite him being feverish and in agony. I really had to fight his corner to stop her forcing him. Turned out his operation had failed, his bowel had ripped open and he had sepsis. He had to have an emergency operation that night followed by ten days in Intensive care. The ward had been telling him he'd be going home the following day. Thankfully that day, when I ranted and ranted, they sent a dr who was a junior. He followed things up when the senior consultants had said all was normal (I find a lot of the Sr. Consultants quite arrogant and hard to approach) and insisted on a scan when the registrar had refused a scan earlier because my husband had had one two days ago. I think A&E is wonderful, I thought intensive care was wonderful, but the many, many wards and consultants I've come across in the last 18 months have left a heck of a lot to be desired. It's quite frightening.

It sounds as though you've tried all the right channels and approaches but aren't getting taken seriously. Can you go back to PALs? I'm not one for suing etc either, but I wonder if you did start legal proceedings or spoke to a solicitor, even without going right down the compo route, whether it would shake them into listening. It does sound as though they've missed some significant things and it shouldn't be got away with. I'm so sorry. I hope you can get some help and clarification. Wishing you strength. My heart breaks reading your post.

seymoursmyman · 18/11/2019 14:16

Ok, as requested. "Just in case meds" are a group of meds to help provide comfort for the patient through the palliative period of their care.
Usually all regular meds are stopped.

Good practice would be to have one of each of these types of meds prescribed on an as required basis
A painkiller
An anti sickness
A calming medication (for agitaion)
An anti mucous med ( for noisy moist breathing)

These are usually used in syringe drivers in whichever combination as required. They are usually given first as injections as and when required.

Apostrophied · 18/11/2019 14:19

Contact PALS straight away. As I was reading your post my eyes were getting wider and wider. What has happened to your DF is shocking.

Kick up a huge fuss. Huge.

ohfourfoxache · 18/11/2019 14:21

Pear I’ve replied sweetheart x