Would you vote Labour if you earned over £80,000?

[NoMansGE]

When doing more research on labours tax policies DH and I noticed that this starts from salaries of £80,000. This would effect our household as that is DHs salary. We both agree with their campaign for 'no more billionaires'.. but we aren't billionaires. We are a normal family who live a comfortable but far from luxury lifestyle. We're both torn how to vote, as it would usually be labour.

I expect probably feeling well off or not depends on how you grew up. If you grew up in a decently off family and your parents never had to worry about how to put food on the table or pay the rent/mortgage, then you'll be used to a certain level and think it's just normal.

I grew up, once of several siblings, single parent family, my mother used to work 2-3 jobs to make ends meet. Now DH and I are earning over 125k between that (most of that is him - my job is around 30k), I can't relax into it tbh, being perilously aware that these things can be taken away from you in a second. So I feel incredibly well off actually. I know it probably sounds really stupid but sometimes if I'm out shopping with DS and he decides he's hungry, and we go to wagamama or nando's or whatever, and we can just decide to do that on the spur of the moment and not have to worry about paying for it - I feel so grateful for that tiny thing.

I mean my POV on anti semitism might be skewed by the fact I live in a very diverse part of London where I have never encountered any personal prejucide due to being Jewish, but what I'm saying is that I can't imagine than British jews feel any more unwelcome at the moment than most British muslims will have felt after 9/11 (and continuing), and yet I haven't seen anyone saying that if Boris becomes Prime Minister then muslims won't be safe in the UK.

I think Labour have a serious anti semitism problem, don't get me wrong, but it hasn't, personally, caused me, as a Jewish woman, to feel unsafe or unwelcome. Any more than I usually feel anyway, as an obviously foreign person!

The NHS is desperately underfunded but also appallingly badly run. I don't think the lack of funding is entirely to blame for the fact it's up shit creek right now.

Thing is, whether we vote or not, someone will get in.

It's not like boycotting a shoe shop, where the shop might close and there be no more shop.

There will still be a government. In many constituencies, abstaining or spoiling will effectively be a vote FOR whoever does get in.

So if my constituency is Tory vs LibDem (say), and I'm convinced that the Tories / Boris Johnson will be terrible for the country on all issues, and the LibDems will be terrible on one issue(say), then by spoiling my LibDem vote I may actively help elect the Tory.

So it may feel like I have clean hands, but:
a) I won't have;
b) ask my relative who voted Bernie Sanders how he feels about getting President Trump.

I don't have magic answers to this one (and haven't yet decided how I'll vote), but one thing I'm sure of is that the morning after 12 December there will be a government and I will have helped put it there, whether I vote or not.

@SiriusBlackAndHisHippogriff

I can hear that you are sincere and (unlike some posters on this thread) you truly believe what you are saying.

Speaking also as a Jewish woman (probably not too far from you, though my seat is more marginal and could go any of three ways) I think that you are being a bit over-optimistic or naive.

Last year I visited the POLIN museum in Warsaw - history of the Jews in Poland - as part of a trip to find my grandparents' birthplaces. It was a very sobering experience. Jews were very much integrated into and part of Polish society for hundreds of years. Then in the late 19th C there was a resurgence of the sort of imagery & rhetoric that we see now coming from Corbyn & his gang. Within a few decades there were multiple pogroms - there was one in the town my grandfather came from - I saw the bullet holes in the buildings. My great-grandparents left directly as a result of that pogrom - luckily for me, as those that stayed were all ghettoised and then murdered by the Nazis in WW2.

Exactly the same was true in Germany. German and Austrian Jews felt totally secure and integrated in their societies. Freud's son fought for Germany in WW1. They considered themselves German/Austrian citizens & were part of the middle classes.

Within a few decades... well, you know the rest of this story.

It is always, ALWAYS a mistake for Jews to feel too complacent, too 'at home', or too much like 'it couldn't happen here'.

However, I have also been almost killed by NHS delay and negligence (absolutely no hyperbole) and was horrified by the mendacity and deceit of people working for it and in it, so I am afraid I don’t buy the “just a bit more tax and we can all have nice things” line

I totally agree with you. Despite having the utmost respect for the ordinary women and men working for the NHS - nurses, midwives, doctors etc - I can't stand the fawning over it, when it's totally inefficient, badly run, horrendously bureacratic and corrupt.

@Frankiestein402

re Jewish chronicle & anti-semitism - does this article clarify anything?

Yes, it clarifies that you don't care about antisemitism and are not interested in listening to the vast majority of Jewish voices. There is an unprecedented level of agreement among Jews about Corbyn.

Generally, there is a huge diversity of opinions among Jews about different issues, but in this case, it is a tiny, tiny minority who don't see his antisemitism - and strangely, that tiny minority are the only Jews that people like you are interested in listening to.

You didn't comment on this poll.

www.survation.com/new-polling-of-british-jews-shows-tensions-remain-strong-between-labour-and-the-british-jewish-community/

The poll, conducted using Survation’s telephone panel of Jewish adults in Great Britain, found that 86% of respondents believe that there are high levels of antisemitism among Labour Party members and elected representatives (4 and 5 on a 1 to 5 scale where 1 represented low levels of antisemitism and 5 represented high levels), the same percentage as in 2018. Only 6% felt there were similar levels of antisemitism within the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats, with 46% stating that UKIP had high levels of antisemitism.

@saltandvinegararethebest DuchessMustard I want to tell you that non-Jewish people are aware of antisemitism and have been concerned about how a line has been crossed in our society. Certainly, many older members of communities who might come from a minority background will recognise this. I want to tell you that you are not alone and will not be left alone and isolated and I know many, many people who feel the way I do. x

Thank you SO much. Honestly, I can't express properly via words how much this means to me. There have always been people like Corbyn. But it's the either passive acceptance, or active enthusiasm, of so many OTHER people for his brand of racism that has made this one of the worst years of my life. x

TBH people saying they don't see Corbyn's antisemitism are as bad as people who spout out the tripe "I don't see colour"

I am voting for Corbyn, as a Jewish woman, in spite of his antisemitism. I don't deny he's antisemitic.

At least if you are going to vote Labour, admit it's because anti semitism isn't important to you, and other issues are.

Half the issue in this whole thing is that people are generally very stupid and don't realise that zionism does not mean "supporting the government of Israel".

The state of Israel and the government of Israel are two very, very different things. IMO.

@SiriusBlackAndHisHippogriff I admire your honesty but I think you are dangerously overconfident of how safe Britain is for Jews.

I will vote Labour and risk the outcomes for me, which include: raised tax and abolition of private education (therefore abolition of my daughter's school and my place of work).

Johnsonsfiat why is your daughter at private school in the first place, if you are a Labour supporter?
Such hypocrisy.

Yes, I would happily vote Labour, and pay more tax, if I earned 80k. I currently earn a high wage - albeit not 80k high - and would pay more, for the benefit of society. Because I'm not a selfish knobhead.

OP, you may feel "normal", but - as PPs have pointed out you are in fact extremely wealthy when compared to average. I suspect you live in a middle class bubble where you think holidays, car ownership, meals out, new clothes etc is the norm.

I see people like this all the time. "Oh, I'm not wealthy - we only go on holiday to Anglesey." "Our car is 10 years old." "We only eat out at Pizza Express, with vouchers." "We buy new clothes from Sainsburys."
They think this stuff makes them somehow average, or thrifty even. Erm, no.

I've just given a box of the DCs old toys to our next door neighbour, as they'd grown out of them. She's wrapping them up for her DD for Christmas as she can't afford to buy her many presents. She also hasn't been on holiday for at least 3 years and can't afford to run a car. This woman is a teacher. When people in good jobs are struggling to get by, due to bills and housing costs, people on 80k should count themselves lucky that they're in a position to be worrying about a bit more tax.

Yes and I am.

I hold my nose and vote Labour and earn more than £80k.

I think the Corbyn is an awful leader, feel betrayed by Labour on Brexit (they should never have contemplated Leaving) and think that Corbyn’s anti- semitism and really dodgy views on women - almost clear misogyny- are awful.

But my local Labour MP is fantastic -staunchly for the EU and good on other policies.

And if I don’t vote Labour a Tory will get in in my electorate.

As hopeless as Labour is, they are better than the stories who are destroying this wonderful country.

@DuchessMustard You are welcome. I mean it. xx

Tories who are destroying this country.

Autocorrect is obviously a bit of a selfish tosser, rather like the OP.

I have NEVER voted for my own economic advantage. Nor would I ever.

I am LUCKY to have to pay a lot of tax.

Well GPs, doctors and dentists vote Labour, but when you earn that much, as we've found, the likes of GPs just reduce their hours to avoid higher taxes. (Of course, that increases waiting lists so that's a double whammy of a "tax the rich" resulting in lower tax revenue AND worsening GP shortages). I do wish these policy makers would apply common sense and think of the obvious inevitable consequences.

If you believe in Labour's policies, then vote Labour. Regardless of what you think of Jeremy Corbyn (he won't be leader forever).

As for paying tax, at £82000 you'll pay £100 a year more. I don't think that's excessive, do you?