Would you vote Labour if you earned over £80,000?

[NoMansGE]

When doing more research on labours tax policies DH and I noticed that this starts from salaries of £80,000. This would effect our household as that is DHs salary. We both agree with their campaign for 'no more billionaires'.. but we aren't billionaires. We are a normal family who live a comfortable but far from luxury lifestyle. We're both torn how to vote, as it would usually be labour.

@PerkingFaintly I should add that I mentioned Windrush just as an example of how low the Tories are prepared to stoop. I'm not for a moment suggesting that anyone should throw themselves or anyone else under the bus as some sort of “swap” for other vulnerable groups. That would be horrific.

No, you mentioned it as the standard sort of whataboutery & denial/dismissing of Labour's institutional antisemitism that is now so very, very common among Corbyn supporters.

Unfortunately for you, a lot of people from minority groups recognise that the people who will demonise & endanger one minority will be only too willing to do it to others when it suits them.

And maybe, just maybe, we are more aware of the pain, fear, & suffering meted out to minorities in this country, and don't see it all as a party political game.

The thing is, I genuinely believe there is antisemitism near the top of the Tory party as well. At the very least, there are people unashamed about using antisemitic dogwhistles if they think it will benefit them.

I'm sure there are. Because they're a mostly corrupt, self-serving, establishment party. But they are not thoroughly, institutionally, passionately antisemitic in a way that is continually ramping up all the time.

I'd never vote for them either.

But it doesn't get the same amount of coverage as the Labour Party, and what coverage there is tends to be benefit-of-the-doubt.

It doesn't get the same amount of coverage because there is not a FRACTION of the same extent of it. There are maps and databases of Labour antisemitism, the EHRC has a 15,000 page dossier, the quantity and extent of it is absolutely overwhelming. There is nothing remotely comparable in any other major party.

Rees-Mogg (retweeter of far-right AfD), seems particularly prone to such “gaffs.” hmm

Not sure what you think you're trying to prove. All of this just shows how much you think this is a point-scoring exercise between fucking cunt Labour and fucking cunt Tories. You don't get it. For Jewish people, what we're fucking scared about is the antisemitism. We don't give a shit which party it is coming from. We call it out when we see it - and where we see it, at the moment, is far more in Labour than anywhere else.
The front page of the JC website today is about a Tory who posted Holocaust denial. There is no anti-Corbyn conspiracy. It is not smears. We call out racism against us when we see it.

I also can't know who will actually behave worse in this respect, when in office.sad I suspect the Tories, but what do I know?

Very little, if you are still denying that Labour in its current form is terrifyingly, thoroughly, endemically, poisonously antisemitic.

I do know that, whoever gets in, there'll be job of work for us all in opposing antisemitism.

Have you thought that listening to Jewish people who are appealing directly to you, rather than trying to twist it for your own party political ends, might be a good start there?

@PerkingFaintly P.S. If you vote for Corbyn's Labour party then you are no friend or ally of the Jewish people in this country. It pains me to say that, as it applies to very good friends of mine, but I always knew this would be a make or break election. Don't kid yourself. They're flying an 'Antisemites Welcome Here - and Please Ramp it Up!' banner. If you choose that, then own that choice, and don't think you can subsequently pretend to be supportive of us.

Mate, I wouldn't even vote labour if I earned £8k let alone £80k

I'm not a Corbyn supporter. I'm not a regular Labour voter. I'm not a member of any political party.

I think there is antisemitism in the Labour Party.

As for understanding vulnerable minority groups who are scared... they've already come for mine. I'm disabled and not just unable to work but unable to manage at home without paying people to come in. I keep my suicide prep up-to-date; I got another reprieve in the spring and am now waiting for the next brown envelope. I used to be terrified; now I'm just tired and resigned.

Most days I have no heating on to save money, and out of that money I contribute to a charity that fights antisemitism.

I come on here on MN and contribute to what campaigns I can, sometimes on the same side as usernames who I recognise as HAVING BEEN CHEERLEADERS FOR THE TORIES AND FOR THE AUSTERITY THAT MAY KILL ME.

It would be horrifying to ask other people to sacrifice, but I'm allowed to put my own needs second, and often I do.

I've said what I have above the Tories because almost certainly one of the two main parties will get in, and I am genuinely concerned that re antisemitism the Tories may turn out worse in practice.

You strongly think Labour may be worse. OK.

You also say you can't vote for the Tories.

Could you give any guidance about who TO vote for? 'Cos I'm buggered if I know what to do, but I'm pretty sure the next N years are going to be nasty.

I've also seriously thought of spoiling my ballot by writing on it (precisely because of this "send a message" element ) as well as ticking the box.

I need to check the circumstances in which a spoiled ballot may still get counted (eg in case of a narrow margin).

Don't spoil your ballot. I've worked at countless elections and it doesn't "send a message" at all. The returning officer - usually a non-political chief exec - tallies them up and that's it.
Sometimes there's more of a discussion about whether the ballot is actually spoiled or not. But trust me, nobody is debating the strength of your "message."

I wouldn’t spoil a ballot because I’m not a teenager throwing a strop.

It’s a very immature thing to do. Do you think anyone cares an anonymous ballot got spoiled?.

Just heard the latest, McDonnell wants Labour to take over the banks and the bank of England - why do they want to do that? Controlling our tax and interest rates at the same time GULP

I think people should spoil ballots if they think thats their only ‘choice’

Its better than not turning out to vote at all

My family is also in this category and yes I would vote Labour. Look at the state of public services and the NHS, how could anyone in good conscience continue to starve them of money?

DH does and will vote Labour (as will Jewish friends of ours).

Ah yes, the 'Jewish friends' who support Corbyn cropping up yet again. Amazing how many of them there are, & how I live in the midst of hundreds of Jews - including all of my family & the majority of my friends - who all know that he's a goddamn antisemite.

@PerkingFaintly
I've said what I have above the Tories because almost certainly one of the two main parties will get in, and I am genuinely concerned that re antisemitism the Tories may turn out worse in practice.

It's not hypothetical. They have been in power for years & there has been no obvious ill-effects on the Jewish community as a result.

You strongly think Labour may be worse. OK.

It's not a 'feeling' or a random opinion plucked from the air. Labour are being investigated by the EHRC. There are literally thousands of cases. There are websites mapping and listing them all, and more emerging every day. It is absolutely endemic. The party is rotten with it.

You also say you can't vote for the Tories. Could you give any guidance about who TO vote for? 'Cos I'm buggered if I know what to do, but I'm pretty sure the next N years are going to be nasty.

I have no idea where you live and it's not for me to tell you who you should or shouldn't vote for. I'm telling you what the vast majority of Jewish people know, which is that Labour are insititutionally and thoroughly riddled with Jew-hatred. If you choose to vote for them, knowing that, for other reasons, that's your choice, but you should do i with your eyes open, and you should have the integrity to own that decision.

You've invented the idea that the Tories are worse on antisemitism as a salve to your conscience. But it's simply not true.

Personally i will be voting Lib Dem. I am lucky enough to have a Lib Dem candidate who was forced out of the Labour party and her previous constituency by antisemites. So I'm happy to be able to vote for her.

I pay more tax because I earn more it’s about equity and not equality. I will be voting labour because even though we will pay more tax I disagree the conservatives starving children, killing the disabled, privatising our NHS, destroying children’s best start in life and not investing in normal children’s education

@duchessmustard - or rather in spite of Corbyn not because of Corbyn; I guess there will be Muslim people voting Conservative.

I do and I will.

@DuchessMustard

late to the thread but I care. I’m not Jewish, but I think Labour/JC are vile in what they’re doing. I couldn’t vote for them on the anti-semitism alone and I’m sorry you feel that people don’t care flowers]

Absolutely. We do earn more than this and will definitely vote Labour. We are happy to support others less fortunate than ourselves.

@PerkingFaintly isn’t it something to do with an “affirmative statement”?

A friend of mine was a counter at the referendum and told me a story where someone had written something offensive about Farage in the Leave box. Because it was within the box, it was deemed to be an active? affirmative? statement and was counted as a vote to leave. Can’t remember the exact wording they used but it was something like that.

The top 5% of earners do already pay slightly over 50% of all income tax collected, so perhaps there is some reason to pause before simply increasing the tax rate which applies to them.

Also, as a policy it does completely fail to take into account cost of living in different parts of the county. OnlyFoolsnMothers suggests that a "terraced house in London" is an indicator of living the high life but, in daily living it is still a "terraced house". If we are going to start pointing fingers at people who inhabit terraced houses as living it high on the hog then this will quickly descend into a Monty Python sketch.

It is fair to suggest that there are quite large parts of the (admittedly) South of the country and suburbs of other larger metropolitan areas, where having a household with kids on a single income around the £80k threshold will mean little truly disposable income and a pretty uneventful lifestyle.

On the other hand, if you have two people without kids, each earning £75k and living in a cheaper part of the country they would have a much higher disposable income.

Labour's current policy makes no attempts to consider the "social justice" of effectively penalising two of these voters whilst letting the other two continue to "live it up".

I think that the Lib Dem policy of adding 1p to all the rates better addresses this potential in-balance. As a side note, it is not actually any cheaper for the voter just above the £80k threshhold (in fact I think it might be a bit more expensive) but it does seem fairer.

One more note to NoMansGE. If you felt particularly strongly, you could probably increase your husband's pension contributions so that whilst you would still see less money brought home, at least the difference would still be "yours". I am pretty sure that quite a few people will look at this.

Yes. I do and I will.

We do and we won't.

Not just because of taxes. In fact, I don't have a problem with paying a bit more, but I DO have a problem with a terrorist sympathiser being leader of our country.

The antisemitism is surely enough to put you all off!! No?

I earn 4x the national average wage but pay about 10x the amount of tax than someone earning the average - I think I already pay more than my fair of the tax burden.

Sorry, more like 8x the tax not 10x