Baby taken away by social services whilst in A&E

[napol]

Hi

I'm new to Mumsnet but am in desperate need of help/advice or better still has anyone out there been in the same situation as me.

I dropped my 10 month old boy at nursery one morning at 8am. He was his normal self - happy chappy with no injuries. I got a call from the nursery at 4.30pm from the manager saying despite no accident happening at nursery throughout the day he had developed a lump on the side of his head but not to worry as he was in no pain or discomfort but best I get it checked out.

we picked him up and took him to a&e immediately where to our horror he was diagnosed with a fractured skull. because the injury was unexplained social services and police were called and the decision was made not to let us take our baby boy home. We are now under investigation and cannot see him unless supervised. it looks like it will go to court months down the line.

We are innocent of any neglect or wrong doing and it seems to us the nursery are obviously to blame. Understandably we are devastated and heartbroken and just want our boy home

Have the police reviewed all the CCTV in the nursery?

If you can afford a private solicitor I would do that asap. Either way have a list of questions prepared that you want answers too and request the CCTV for the full day for his room. This alone should show that there was no bump when you left him at nursery.
How did they not notice the bump when they checked temp if it was done out of their care?
Have they recorded the fever and giving calpol?
I'd specifically be looking at CCTV in the hour preceding the calpol phone call. If fever is associated with a head injury then they are likely covering up a fall or bump or some sort but trying to soothe him with calpol. Poor love, he must be in some pain. I hope this is sorted asap OP.

I do worry about threads like this. We really know absolutely nothing about what went on. We have no idea of the back story. The social services are far too pushed to snatch random babies with no evidence, and OP really ought to be focussing on getting the legal help she needs. Offer support, of course. But please stop saying that the nursery is obviously guilty and the family is completely innocent. We just don’t know that, and multiple posters saying it won’t help. And will just reinforce other people’s unnecessary fears.

Definitely stay calm and agree with everything wilmalovescake advice . Despite the absolute mental turmoil you are ,in try and keep levelheaded. I hope you get your little guy home Asap.

How scary for you both

I hope the medical report today can clear up the timeline for you, so that you can take him home then they can carry on investigating what happened at nursery.

The calpol at 11 does sound suspicious

If the medical timeline today can’t rule you out & see SS returned I’d be looking to throw money at the best family/specialist lawyer I could find (if your free one isn’t a Specislist)

Good luck today x

What Bertrand said. We really can't make assumptions based on one side of the story, and far too many people are scared to get social services help they desperately need because of the sort of fears this type of story engenders, frequently without good reason.

I do worry about threads like this. We really know absolutely nothing about what went on. We have no idea of the back story.
The social services are far too pushed to snatch random babies with no evidence, and OP really ought to be focussing on getting the legal help she needs. Offer support, of course. But please stop saying that the nursery is obviously guilty and the family is completely innocent. We just don’t know that, and multiple posters saying it won’t help. And will just reinforce other people’s unnecessary fears
This ^^

There's so much misinformation on social services and safeguarding on here.

Completely agree with Bertrand.

OP

Above all you need to remain clinically calm and absolutely in charge of your emotions at all times when you are dealing with SS. Cooperate fully even if they ask outrageous things. Be absolutely calm at all times.

Secondly you need to immediately contact your MP. This really needs to be done today. You explain everything to her/him and you ask directly for their intervention. They need to represent you, they need to demand for an early court hearing if that is what SS intend to do.

Op, take your phone and the message from the nursery at 11am re: the calpol and ask them to consider this immediately. It is evidence that something was clearly amiss IN the nursery way before they alerted you to the lump in the afternoon.

Given the lump started to appear in the late afternoon then surely it must be almost medically impossible that you to have had anything to do with it. Go to your GP and ask him/her what are the chances of this if happening. Get it in writing if it supports your case. Usually when a child or adult sustains an injury the lump appears straight away.

Please try and gather witness statements from the workers that took your son in the morning, get them to confirm IN WRITING that he was fine and in good health when you dropped him off.

You need health visitor reports that are positive about your parenting, other friends, family anyone you know that can write a character reference for you.

If you don't have the money to get the best lawyer, then crowd fund today and raise the money. I think most people would happily help you get your child back.

Speak to your Aunt and Uncle and ensure they are on board to continue, do whatever you need to, to keep them happy.

I am so sorry this has happened to you, but if you stay calm and together the truth will emerge.

In my view, the most likely suspect in all of this looking from a purely neutral stance is the nursery. They were with him for so long before this was even raised.

Your son's removal is a preventative measure until the facts are confirmed, the SS are in no way saying this is your fault or you are responsible. It is purely a safely measure - keep this in mind.

If you get into a desperate situation, call every newspaper in the country and ask for their support. As much as we hate the DM they are often very good at campaigns like this.

You will come through this.

Record every detail you can think of including the phonecall about the calpol. Forward everything to the police. All nursery staff should be investigated too. You should also inform ofsted and LADO. Ofsted can shut them whilst an investigation is underway if it is this serious. It is possible they could have covered a fall, such as are there stairs? Was he not strapped into the High chair properly and has tried to climb and fallen out? I hope you get to the bottom of what happened. From my experience of head injuries the bump tends to rise quickly and almost immediately after impact but I'm not a doctor. Great that you have legal advice and like the other posters have said cooperation with everything be an open book. If you do all of that it's likely you will get your son back quicker. Don't do anything to make things difficult as it could hinder an investigation. Thinking of you and your boy.

When my nephew fell out of his cot he was taken to hospital.social services was called they didn't take further action but a week later he developed a soft lump on his head took him to hospital and it was a fractured skull so he could have hurt his head a couple of days to a week b4 he developed the lump

Those of you saying that there must be more to this. Have some compassion for a family going through hell & if you research you'll find that just isn't the case. It's in place to protect vulnerable DCs, but unfortunately also negative affects innocent families too.

My DD has EDS, so fractures, dislocates & bruises way too easily & I've lost count of the number of times I've been quizzed & treble quizzed like I was an abuser for simply asking for help for her injuries. DH too. We were lucky haha that most of her injuries happened at school or YC & that a big one was witnessed by an off duty A&E Nurse wise house we happened to be at & that she could ring them & speak up for us. That was often after we had a diagnosis that explained everything too, only too many staff hadn't heard of it, nor understand what it means in terms if more serious injury from a minor accident & there's always a school gossip or ten to contend with too

I've lost count of the number of parents who have innocently gone through exactly this scenario from the EDS support groups, & it takes way to long to get those kids back & the damage that does to DCs & families just isn't given enough weight, it's horrendous, but it DOES happen & way too often

OP, I can't offer you advice, except perhaps join the Facebook group "EDS UK Parent Support" & ask fir advice there as I know several activists members have been through this too & can advise, though they will come from an EDS POV, they can at least point you in the right direction for the help you need.

Good luck OP, having had some very stressful, jaw dropping A&H visits ourselves, I absolutely believe you & feel for you all & hope you get this fixed quickly

Absolutely agree with everything Bertrand says above.

The thing is that people saying 'SS are too busy to snatch random babies" are insinuating it must be someone at home, not the nursery.
I agree that we don't know what happened, but given the bump was noticed 8.5 hours was it?.After he'd been at nursery, and they'd given him calpol and taken his temperature and not noticed it, i think it could be the nursery.
If it was the nursery it would be horrible if all replies were insinuating it must be someone at home.
The investigation won't in any way be affected by an anonymous mumsnet thread.

I do worry about threads like this. We really know absolutely nothing about what went on. We have no idea of the back story. The social services are far too pushed to snatch random babies with no evidence, and OP really ought to be focussing on getting the legal help she needs. Offer support, of course. But please stop saying that the nursery is obviously guilty and the family is completely innocent. We just don’t know that, and multiple posters saying it won’t help. And will just reinforce other people’s unnecessary fears.

Bert I do understand why you might think that as we'd all love to think this sort of thing can't happen, but it definitely does & without any valid reason at all. See my post above

“ The investigation won't in any way be affected by an anonymous mumsnet thread“

No. But reinforcing the myth that the social services routinely take babies away with no evidence will make some people much less likely to seek help if they need it. Or just make them more scared and unhappy than they are already.

Keeyoh you were able to give an account of what happened. Imagine if you'd turned up and said you'd no idea how they broke their arm, questions would have been asked. Imagine as a medical professional a young child has a fractured skull and Mum says she doesn't know what happened, regardless of your background you'd be investigated.
The medical team should be able to give an answer soon regarding how old the injury is which will help assist police and SS as to when it happened and who was responsible for the child's care at the time.
OP you said this happened 6 days ago is that right? I'd have thought they'd have an answer by now? All their examinations should be complete?

alpine
No, what we are saying is that social services are too busy, underfunded and understaffed to go around snatching random children. Nobody is saying it's definitely home, nobody is saying it's definitely nursery,nobody has ruled out potential medical issues.
We're just saying that there's so many children and families who can't get support that SS don't have the resources to remove children without real grounds for concern.

Unfortunately, as is the way on SS threads on here there's loads of scaremongering, lots of claims that social services take children just because and so on which doesn't help anyone.

MN has some weird attitudes to safeguarding at times. I've seen countless threads where posters with concerns have been told not to report, where people have unconditionally affirms a poster that school staff were out of order by logging safeguarding etc, that professionald need to get on with "real safeguarding" (usually from posters who've got zero safeguarding training).
It doesn't help people who are in tricky situations.

The OP needs appropriate advice and guidance from people offline who will know the details of the situation.

I see where @BertrandRussellI is coming from, but I do worry that what @keeyoh said about socioeconomic backgrounds has some truth to it. Although I am not making any assumptions about OP’s situation.

However, there are a lot of stories on this thread of PPs being in a similar position to the OP, and having the same experiences. Then there’s another distinct group that say it’s simply safeguarding? And SS will always get to the truth etc etc

Maybe both options are true. SS can interact with parents from lower socioeconomic backgrounds and assume guilt, yet higher socioeconomic backgrounds will be treated as though SS is more of a formality or support system.

It would be disgusting for this to be the case, but I hold have no doubt that Drs and SS workers have prejudices against certain people.

Jesus wept, it couldn’t have been clearer that she didn’t actually physically drop him!

Obv we don’t know the full story but it’s hardly like there haven’t been multiple stories of SS fucking up. The fact the nursery said “despite there being no accident” seems weird too. Like my kids when they say x y and z happened for no reason, meaning there was a reason plus they caused it.

I agree you should take professional legal advice op

The other thing to remember is that social services are bound by confidentiality, so cannot respond to anything said/written about them.

@lolsmiles is right. I work in an SS related service and I still hear people telling me that sw's get bonuses and incentives for removing children. People don't go in to those roles for the money that's for sure! SS is massively overstretched but there are clearly concerns there for them to feel that supervised access is needed. That doesn't mean an incident didnt occur at the nursery or that the child wont return home. SSs priority is keeping families together where possible and safe.

Wow. A baby doesn't just develop a lump on the head at nursery with no accident . The swelling would be immediate with a head injury. They need to investigate the nursery

And most of the social service fuck up stories are about them not taking children into care.

Absolutely, the OP needs proper, professional offline advice.

this can't be the full story. my best advice is to cooperate fully with SS.