Baby taken away by social services whilst in A&E

[napol]

Hi

I'm new to Mumsnet but am in desperate need of help/advice or better still has anyone out there been in the same situation as me.

I dropped my 10 month old boy at nursery one morning at 8am. He was his normal self - happy chappy with no injuries. I got a call from the nursery at 4.30pm from the manager saying despite no accident happening at nursery throughout the day he had developed a lump on the side of his head but not to worry as he was in no pain or discomfort but best I get it checked out.

we picked him up and took him to a&e immediately where to our horror he was diagnosed with a fractured skull. because the injury was unexplained social services and police were called and the decision was made not to let us take our baby boy home. We are now under investigation and cannot see him unless supervised. it looks like it will go to court months down the line.

We are innocent of any neglect or wrong doing and it seems to us the nursery are obviously to blame. Understandably we are devastated and heartbroken and just want our boy home

Op ask for this to be taken down and get proper legal advice. Not mumsnet advice from strangers.

How scary. Hope you get good news today.

Theres alot more to this story than op is saying. Op do you live with someone or your son have access to someone who can cause him harm. Its vvv hard for ss to remove a child from their parents without evidence etc. Op...id ask mn to remove this, get proper legal evidence and co operate with Ss. Good luck hope your little boy is returned.

I'm sorry but my recent dealings with SS lead me to believe that they want to see the "worst thing possible" in every situation, and seem totally oblivious of the heartbreaking consequences to thier actions and the long term damage this causes.
People who genuinely abuse their DC's are very adept at concealing this. Innocent parents are bewildered and genuinely upset and often unable through shock to cope with accusations.
I think they forget that they are dealing with peoples lives and not a paper file.
My heart goes out to you OP.

Could your partner have hurt him?

In my experience with these cases, sometimes the mum is horrified and angry because she knows she had never hurt the child. And it turns out the dad/step dad/male relative has been abusing the child when left alone with the child..

Children don't tend to break their skull falling over at nursery, it's a much higher impact than that.

They will do a full 'skeletal survey' to look for other broken bones. And check he doesn't have any diseases that could contribute, brittle bones etc.

You need to work with nursery and keep an open mind. IME women who refuse to belive their boyfriend has hurt their baby despite overwhelming evidence have their children removed.

All the best OP, I hope everything gets sorted soon x

This will probably happened at nursery . I think the staff underestimated the scale of the injury because there was no immediate lump and decided not to record it , it's too late now as all head injuries have to be monitored, so they would be in trouble . Or the nursery nurses are are covering up for an accident that if recorded would have resulted in a disciplinary . I think the Calpol cold be significant . I can imagine how awful this is for you x

I understand Bertrand’s point but I don’t agree insofar as if there’s any point to this forum at all it’s to take posts in good faith unless there is very strong evidence to the contrary. If a poster said she’d been raped and posters questioned her word, it could be devastating for the OP. The fact is whole thread may be invented if it comes to it.

I don’t think there’s any question that SS take babies with no evidence - there is evidence that the baby has suffered an injury and it’s standard practice to remove babies in the circumstances. That’s all as it should be but it can be devastating for the families involved.

Of course there is the possibility something happened in OP’s home, either wittingly or unwittingly. If so hopefully the investigation will get to the bottom of it.

But this thread is not public information on SS and I don’t think other posters potential ‘unnecessary fears’ trump the OP current apparently real ones. I think it’s helpful for OP to know that this is standard procedure and other parents have experienced similar. And to get advice on how to deal with it.

I’m sorry. This is heartbreaking.

Also just seen his fracture is on the back of his head.

A child fracturing the back of his head from a simple fall over at nursery would be very unusual.

The hysteria on this thread is ridiculous.

What is more likely: an institutional cover up at a nursery to conceal that a child has fallen over and somehow broke his skull at the back, despite the force needed to do this being high or the woman's partner has been hitting him and broke his skull?

I've seen lots of these cases at work, and 9 times out of 10 it is the dad/step dad. See Ellie Butler, other horrific cases. The Op might genuinely believe no one at home has hit the child, doesn't mean they haven't.

Think before you post.

Also nursery could have given him calpol because the poor boy was in agony from his broken skull, that he has been living with for weeks.

My eldest had loads of "egg" bumps from falling over, his balance has always been terrible. One time he tripped and flew into a bolt on a door. Biggest egg you ever saw. None ever resulted in a fractured skull, that's massive. I so hope that little boy is okay and I think social services are doing their job here - they don't know if there is danger to this little boy, or where it is coming from, so they are keeping him safe.

Doctors will have an idea how the injury occurred.

I really hope you find out what happened. Obviously the police will be talking to all staff in the Nursery. Don't they have CCTV in there or is that not allowed? They really should have some sort of evidence or proof of injuries to children.

@JenniferM1989 they didn't advise A&E they advised getting it checked out.
He is pretty much bald what hair he does have is very fine whitey/blond hair so you can see every vein and curvature of his skull. therefore and bumps would be obvious

@napol, there are obviously many questions that are still unanswered atm.
I would encourage you to write them all down so that you can ask them today at your meeting.
I would also strongly encourage you to go and see a solicitor to support you with the legal side of things.

I would guess another child has whacked him in the head with something or he has fallen backwards and hit a door edge or something similar. They can tell on the X-ray whether it is an old or new fracture (an older fracture would have signs of healing).

Not at all in the same league but when my dd was in nursery I picked her up one day and she had a massive scratch on her face. No one had seen how it had happened and she still has the scar on her cheek. Things do happen that aren’t seen in nursery, they can’t be everywhere at all times.

I’m so sorry this has happened and I hope that it get resolved soon and you get your baby back.

Op - could your partner have done it?

Does he have alcohol/substance misuse issues? Any previous convictions? These are the things social services will be looking at

Like PP, ask:

• when would a doctor expect that a lump would appear after such an injury?

• if he was injured before you took him to nursery, is it possible the nursery would not have noticed this the entire day?
• Is it possible that such lump would go unnoticed when they were closely examining the child, taking his temperature and giving him medicine?
• based on the above, is it likely that he was injured before drop off?

@zofloramummy - how many times have your children hjad a broken skull from another child hitting them on the head with a toy?

Mine fall over, get whacked with things by their siblings etc They've never broken their skull, it's a serious injury that has taken considerable force, e.g. a fall down the stairs, a punch from an adult.

I hope this doesn't sound goady but is this sort of situation more prevalent in lower socioeconomic groups due to the bias/prejudice of dr's and SS?

I only ask as I don't know a single person this has happened to.

The person I know who this happened to me is very much middle class. A serious injury that wasn’t witnessed will trigger an investigation.

Whether class comes into how quickly it’s resolved is another matter.

When I took DT1 to A&E with a head injury, the first thing they ask is how it happened. I saw it, so I could tell them easily, and the injury correlated with what I told them so there were no concerns (plus it was his first a&e visit).

If a child comes in with a fractured skull and the cause of the injury is unknown, they have to investigate it, and they will - regardless of social class. If the child fell off a climbing frame in a busy park, with witnesses, they have an answer. If it happened at home with a parent present, they know what happened (although there may still be questions it things seem suspect). Where there’s no explanation or witness at all, they can’t not investigate- imagine if a child came in with a fractured skull, no idea why, and they did nothing and it turned out there was abuse happening. They can’t risk that. It also depends on the stage of the child - a child who’s just learned to walk who has lots of bruises on their shins is pretty typical. A child who’s not yet mobile with lots of bruises is another matter.

OP, it doesn’t mean they believe you’ve done it - they’re following protocol. I know it must be excruciating. This could happen to any of us, it’s not a reflection on you. Take the legal advice and comply with their investigation fully, hopefully it will be resolved very soon.

I really don't think speculation about who is at fault is helpful on this thread. It will do bugger all to help the OP.

Perhaps we should focus on supporting her to ensure she is fully informed of what is / can / will happen rather than speculate with absolutely no evidence.

@TatianaLarina great post!

there has to be more to it?? no there doesn't! when a baby has an unexplained head fracture the baby will be removed from its carers - parents and nursery until an admission of guilt or investigation into what happened concludes. there doesn't need to be anything else as its serious enough!

There is no evidence to suggest my fiance did this. he is the actual father and loves that little boy more than anything. I reiterate he would never hurt him and is as heartbroken as I am.

OP, did you have any involvement with Social Services prior to this?

Maybe both options are true. SS can interact with parents from lower socioeconomic backgrounds and assume guilt, yet higher socioeconomic backgrounds will be treated as though SS is more of a formality or support system.

I have some experience of this, but in this case it was an awful arrogant doctor who was threatening parents with SS if they argued with him.

I did argue with him as in his arrogance he wasn't dealing with my very ill, in screaming pain DD, nor passing her on to someone who might have a clue. I suppose looking & listening to us & not been from the area, we'd come across as more MC much to my DHs horror So when this doctor told me I was obstructive in DDs care & he was calling SS on us, when HE wasn't reading her notes properly & presuming I was some sort of flaky hippy & not that DDs intolerances to chemical additives was medically recognised, nor that she'd reacted very badly I the past to drugs he was insisting on giving to her. I saw red & very politely ripped him a new arsehole & threatened him with SS fir his obstruction in her care.

The family in the bed opposite, from a rougher part of town & local accent, whose mum was crying because of the bruising in her tiny DD due to staff trying to get medicine down her was threatened with SS for complaining about this bruising. I witnessed this. SS actually came out to the bedside to interview her on this shitty doctors say so. He clearly felt he had that power because she couldn't argue with him eloquent enough & had several kids & lived in the wrong part of town. SS turned up & took it seriously on his word

@Glacecherrychops load of rubbish....he had been fit, well, and happy for several days leading up to the injury.

also I said the side of the head not the back

his fracture on the side of his head towards the back of his skull

I'm going to step away from this OP, because I don't think you are being completely forthcoming about what's gone on.

I hope you get your boy back xx

What is more likely: an institutional cover up at a nursery to conceal that a child has fallen over and somehow broke his skull at the back, despite the force needed to do this being high or the woman's partner has been hitting him and broke his skull?

If it happened at nursery I’d think it would be more likely to be accidental.

I think accidents in daycare are more common than is popularly acknowledged. In one Austrialian study of NSW alone more than 1000 children needed medical treatment and dozens were taken to hospital in one year. Some children were sent home with broken bones.

I’m not aware of a central database of UK of all injuries in daycare.

Of course the other prime candidate is OP’s partner. But that is for the investigation to determine.