Baby taken away by social services whilst in A&E

[napol]

Hi

I'm new to Mumsnet but am in desperate need of help/advice or better still has anyone out there been in the same situation as me.

I dropped my 10 month old boy at nursery one morning at 8am. He was his normal self - happy chappy with no injuries. I got a call from the nursery at 4.30pm from the manager saying despite no accident happening at nursery throughout the day he had developed a lump on the side of his head but not to worry as he was in no pain or discomfort but best I get it checked out.

we picked him up and took him to a&e immediately where to our horror he was diagnosed with a fractured skull. because the injury was unexplained social services and police were called and the decision was made not to let us take our baby boy home. We are now under investigation and cannot see him unless supervised. it looks like it will go to court months down the line.

We are innocent of any neglect or wrong doing and it seems to us the nursery are obviously to blame. Understandably we are devastated and heartbroken and just want our boy home

Well it must be the nursery. And I would imagine a bump/swelling would come up straight away not 8 hrs later....

God OP my heart breaks for you!

My wee boy fell over at nursery and cracked his head a stonker (no fracture) and within the hour he had an exceptional bump, I find it completely implausable that nursery could have him the whole day, even perform a health check to notice he had a fever and yet still not see the bump until the end of the day.

I also find it repulsive that you are not allowed to see your child except for a very small supervised window and yet the nursery is still operating.

I have never in all my time raising 3 children seen a head injury take so long to appear as the nusery timeline suggests. The fact that the nursery advised you to have your son checked out the bruise appeared is also a bit as I have never been advised to have my childrens bumps checked out including the one my toddler obtained at nursery.

I am so so sorry you are going through this and I hope you are reuinited with your baby soon

Yep, my boys have managed some very bad head bumps in the past 10 years, and longest it took for the bump to appear was 20 minutes. If it was a fracture I would expect a bump within minutes.

It seems highly improbable that a child could be chirpy and happy, and in your care for 45 minutes, could then have a head injury fever at 11am, and a bump late afternoon if it happened on your watch. Same with his dad. There is no way he could have hurt himself, or been hurt by one of you and then happily gone off to nursery with no signs of distress.

So sorry, glad it's being looked into, but hope they're giving nursery a very very thorough probing.

How horrific.

As others have said, I’d be wanting my solicitor to be all over:
The CCTV from the nursery
All records to do with my child that day: how was he recorded as arriving that morning, what was recorded around this calpol call at 11am, how was he after that, when was the bump noted and recorded etc.
I would want expert medical advice on how quickly a bump would normally come up after a skull fracture;
All photos taken in the premises that day
All accident reporting and incident policies at the nursery together with the paperwork on what happened that day.

Fight back OP.

I reckon another child could have clonked him on the head with a wooden or heavy metal toy and it could have caused a fracture, if it was done with the edge of said toy.

They might also (and possibly should) consider investigating him for brittle bone disease www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3032841/

I wanted to share that we had an experience with a toddler head fracture. Our little girl climbed out of her high chair when I was at the sink, and hit the tiled floor. Vomiting, and sleepy, I was terrified. Took her straight to emergency, xrays, mri. Radiologist and pediatrician came to show me a hairline fracture. I was interviewed, but I guess the hospital didn’t report me. Toddler didn’t present with a lump or bump, but the vomiting and lethargy were v.noticeable.

We stayed in overnight for observation, but at discharge we were allowed to go home with no follow ups, as unless there’s concussion, there’s nothing to be done with her type of fracture.

I hope your little one gets better soon, and that you get them back right away.

get the knowledge.know you shit.be calm but factual.show them that you mean business and wont be fobbed off.rattle the shit out of them if it is the nursery so they know they will be found out.
ask every question.
can you find out when a bump comes after a knock.can it take time or is it always instant.
ask for the activities of the child for the whole day?every second.
was he alone.when was he with others.what was he doing.esepcailly around the time of 11 to see what he was doing and could something of happened.was he with another child who could have done something.was he near books or near shelves etc.
and then again at the time they reported the bump appeared.
find out everything about the fracture and what behavior this would bring on.could he be happy like he was with you and when you left him if this injury had happened.what would his behviours be and when would he start feeling ill.
would it bring on temperature.
if the bump is obvious when he went in and they saw it they would have wanted to put it on a body map to make sure you then could blame it on them when you came to pick him up.so is it somethign they would have spotted on ntering firs thing?

I’m so sorry this is happening to you op. Am glad your ds is on the mend.

You’ve had lots of excellent advice on the thread and I hope that the police and SS involvement unearths the truth.

My dd had several accidents whilst at nursery, including knocking her front tooth out. They were obviously mortified but told me everything and followed procedure.

I think asking for a copy of their policies would be a good idea.

I wish you all the luck in the world

I'm rooting for you OP. Wishing you strength.

This sounds very upsetting OP, but you are right to co-operate as it is a serious injury which is unexplained and they are just trying to make sure your child is safe and following procedures.

Some schools/nurseries under react to injuries my dd had a massive facial bruise with swelling and a concussion from a head injury in her Reception year which DH only discovered when he picked her up, the injury had occurred several hours earlier. I have also looked after multiple children with fractured limbs that have been left in pain until the end of the school day when it was obviously broken (not able to use their arm or not bearing weight on their leg at all and screaming in pain when moved).

Does the nursery have an accident book where they record injuries etc...? They should be logging them somewhere. Your legal support can look into this as can the Police. They should also have recorded giving the calpol and what time.

I hope you can get some support to help you investigate.

There is more to this. Has she been on record before in this creche for injuries?

Awake here and horrified by this. You poor things and your baby being without you. No advice except if you feel solicitor not fighting for you don’t be slow to change them. Good luck

Can’t go into too many details as don’t want to share someone else’s details but a friend of mine went through similar. Their child had a nasty injury in their cot - mum went to them as soon as she heard crying and took them to A&E. Because the accident wasn’t witnessed, that made it an unexplained injury. SS were involved and they investigated - lots of tests, interviews and a home visit etc - but ultimately the case was closed. After they were assessed it was clear they were very good parents and despite the fact the injury could never be fully explained because there was no witness, they established the likeliest cause and that was that. Awful for the parents in the meantime.

I’m sure this must be so frightening but try to hold on to the fact that they are just following the procedures they have to follow where there’s an unexplained / not witnessed serious injury, and your little one was not in your care that day.

I hope this is over quickly for you, every parent dreads this but they will investigate and come to the right conclusion

The calpol sounds highly suspicious.

Could he have fallen from a nappy changing station?

how long would swelling take to appear after a blow to the head?

If you mean external swelling, lump etc, not long.

I would get ss or the police to go to the nursery and interview them all separately ..

After many high profiles of child abuse and neglect being missed or ignored (Baby P etc), hospitals are now very quick to report to ss any unexplained injuries on babies and young children.

Work with SS OP and you'll get your baby back.

Nothing useful to add, but having been through similar I just wanted to add my support again.

Use MN as a sounding board. You're going to need somewhere to vent.

My DS had an unexplained injury. Well both me and DH know who did it, but because they were in a position of trust etc and denied it we weren't believed. It took a year or so before he was back with us. He is now 14 and has 2 younger sisters. We have no dealings with SS at all. In fact when DD2 was born we bumped into the SW as we were registering the birth and she coo'd over the baby (as she was at the time). They completely closed the case when DD1 was about 6 months old. So it can be alright in the end, its just going to take a lot of work to get there.

Stay strong OP.

I also find it repulsive that you are not allowed to see your child except for a very small supervised window and yet the nursery is still operating.

Not defending the nursery at all, as from information available it would seem more likely it occurred on their watch but there is a difference with kids being at home alone with a potential abuser(s) - NOT saying this is the OP, just trying to explain why the nursery would still be operating - as opposed to an accreditated nursery which would be operating under the rule that a child must never be alone with a career but two carers must be present. So, essentially at a nursery a child should never be alone with somebody and if there was any abuse the other person present would prevent/cease/report. This is all theoretical of course, one could argue as to how it works in practice.

Unfortunately the OP and her child have become caught up in rules that may not be relevant to their scenario but are in place to protect vulnerable kids. The harsh reality is that some kids do come in due to parental abuse so it’s a wide net that captures more than it needs to in order to ensure protection for the vulnerable basically.

Another who thinks bumps usually come up quite quickly following trauma. Also in all the childcare settings my children have ever been in the usual protocol for a head injury is standard bump to the head advice, so monitor for signs of concussion /reduced consciousness etc. Never been told to take my child to A&E.
Was your little boy showing any symptoms of concussion when you collected him from nursery , sleepy , groggy , had he vomited ( clothes changed ) ?

OP, I'm a family lawyer please feel free to message me.

Also, do some posters intentionally try to misinterpret OPs. It's quite obvious she dropped OFF her son given she states "at 8am". You'd think most people would be able to work out OP isn't telling us the time she dropped her son on the head.

Or can they just not read, adding to the confusoin really is unhelpful and annoying

Something similar happened in my home town a few years ago.

Mum took toddler to A&E at night, diagnosed broken leg. She had no idea how it had happened.

He was in full time day care in a relatively new (had only been open 3 months) nursery.

SS placed the child with Grandma.

It was only due to one of the teenagers working at the nursery speaking up that it got solved fast.

Full details weren’t released (it did make the local paper) but the child had broken his leg at nursery. Nursery didn’t record it nor tell his Mum. They were shut down immediately and never re-opened.

I dread to think what would have happened to Mum if that person hadn’t spoken up

I hope this doesn't sound goady but is this sort of situation more prevalent in lower socioeconomic groups due to the bias/prejudice of dr's and SS?

I only ask as I don't know a single person this has happened to. My daughter broke her arm by falling awkwardly when she was a toddler and we were never questioned with any sort of suspicion.

This is literally my biggest fear. My kitchen cupboard is covered in nursery accident slips where I've kept them and stuck them on there because my son was so clumsy. Constantly living in fear that social services will get called. He even split his eyebrow open because he bumped his head into a table (that occurred at nursery and had to take him to hospital). I took him to the opticians and now he has glasses at the age of 3. I pushed and pushed for that appointment out of fear of social services.

It's a horrible fucking way to live. I've witnessed a friend having her child removed and I've had to deal with SS in the past for mental health reasons, and it's put the fear of god into me.

We shouldn't have to live like this ☹️