Baby taken away by social services whilst in A&E

[napol]

Hi

I'm new to Mumsnet but am in desperate need of help/advice or better still has anyone out there been in the same situation as me.

I dropped my 10 month old boy at nursery one morning at 8am. He was his normal self - happy chappy with no injuries. I got a call from the nursery at 4.30pm from the manager saying despite no accident happening at nursery throughout the day he had developed a lump on the side of his head but not to worry as he was in no pain or discomfort but best I get it checked out.

we picked him up and took him to a&e immediately where to our horror he was diagnosed with a fractured skull. because the injury was unexplained social services and police were called and the decision was made not to let us take our baby boy home. We are now under investigation and cannot see him unless supervised. it looks like it will go to court months down the line.

We are innocent of any neglect or wrong doing and it seems to us the nursery are obviously to blame. Understandably we are devastated and heartbroken and just want our boy home

No need to be so touchy. Lowest common denominator is not a personal attack on individual workers. It’s a commentary on what I imagine public funding stretches to. Within the NHS (it might be different in the legal system, so don’t take offence) even when the skill is there for surgeons to act, often the money simply isn’t there. It’s no reflection on the surgeon. Likewise, it’s no reflection on the lawyer if there simply isn’t money to do certain things that may be able to be funded privately.

As I said, I don’t have any experience, it was just my instinct, and what I’ve read online. Clearly I would look into all available options if I was faced with this situation.

No point in detailing the thread though. Hope it all works out for the best

Hope you're holding up ok. We had similar with gs a few years ago. Turned out was his father that hurt him and took 18 months for it to finally become apparent although ss and police thought it was him from the outset but the father fought his innocence. We were carers for gs with the view to foster but as my daughter moved back with us with gs and broke all ties with the father then the family court awarded her full custody. The father wasnt prosecuted but had to attend anger management and also only supervised access via myself or ss. As it is the day we left court we never heard from him again! 3 years later we have finally moved on from the trauma. All I'm saying is that your son was hurt by either nursery (accidentally) or at home (accidentally or on purpose) Either way be prepared for a thorough investigation by ss and police. Co-operate fully, dont show any anger or be emotionally uncontrolled as this will raise flags for them. Although you will think they should understand your emotions if you loose it they will wonder when else you loose it. It's so so hard and I feel for you so much. We ended up with a really good sw in the end (after a duff one) and he saw straight through the father and wanted to keep our gs in the family with us so we were lucky in a way that my daughter didnt loose any contact with him. As for legal aid. Our solicitor was amazing and went above and beyond and was on the end of a phone. If dd had to pay it was in excess of 20k as we had medical experts and family court etc to deal with. All the best and I hope it works out well for you and your little one can be kept as protected as possible with the whole process xxxxx

Sorry I dont want my comment to mean I'm assuming one of you are guilty all I meant was we were shocked how it turned out for us and took forensic evidence and family court to prove it. We had thought it was someone else as father was somewhere for the day with gs and he was adamant he wasnt to blame but couldn't explain how injury happened. Just emphasising the need for co-operation. Jump through all the hoops and make sure you ask lots of questions too. Lots of love to you xxxx

Likewise, it’s no reflection on the lawyer if there simply isn’t money to do certain things that may be able to be funded privately.

But it doesn’t work like this, law is very different to medicine. If it’s necessary, legal aid covers it. If it’s not necessary, it doesn’t matter what you can afford to pay but it won’t be included. So there isn’t a question of private funding somehow providing more of a “service”.

I’m also conscious of derailing the thread but simply didn’t want to let this misinformation stand in case it worries someone enough to waste thousands and thousands of pounds for no gain.

Happy to be corrected @Fenella. Glad it’s different in legal circumstances.

So sorry to read what you are going through.

I have some experience as my sister went through it (although different injuries and I'm now NC with her due to it all) anyway, I hope you come back to the thread as the vast majority of people are kind and helpful.

how did the medical exam go today?

@wingingit....would you mind PM me? I'd like to hear your story of possible as I'm still massively struggling with dealing with the family fallout over my sister's incident. I'd pm you but cant see how to do it! but only if you feel comfortable xx

@napol I have a similar situation. My sisters baby fell off the bed and she took him into A&E straight away as there was a lump. They discovered he had a skull fracture and then both she and my brother-in-law were investigated by social services and the police on suspicion of child abuse because the baby was non-mobile (only 3 months).

They were not allowed to leave the hospital until the conclusion of the investigation. They had the full skeletal survey and the police accompanied them back to their house to see what happened. Thankfully that was it. I wonder if it's the fact that you cannot explain to SS how the accident happened is why the baby has been removed? It seems incredibly harsh. FWIW, my sister and her husband are both also in professional roles (city lawyers).

.....were investigated by social services and the police on suspicion of child abuse because the baby was non-mobile (only 3 months)

My youngest son could turn himself over within a week of being born. At 5 months he climbed out of his cot and fell, without injury onto the thick carpet. We rushed into his room and found him scooting across the carpet towards the door. So I know some babies can be very mobile at a young age.

OP I'm so sorry you are going through this. Something happened at the nursery and a worker is concealing the truth. The medicine at 11am was to settle him down after he was injured.

Fenella I can't say what I do on a public forum, however I have sat on numerous legal aid represented cases where the case was not even been looked at before presenting in court.

Many are absolutely overworked and overwhelmed in some areas of the country (ours being one of them) and no I don't think that would happen if you hired the best legal team in the country. Absolutely not.
I am not saying this happens everywhere, but it definitely happens here. I do see the value in not wanting to worry parents about legal aid, but we have to be honest, the system is on its knees, as is most of the judiciary and grossly underfunded.

We will agree to disagree on this I think, because we do not want to hijack and derail such an important thread picking over the benefits or otherwise of legal aid.

*case was not even looked at - correction (on train on way home!)

Considerme just one question, are you referring to family court? Public law cases in particular?

Because, as has already been explained, all of these care cases are publicly funded. And I’m imagining how the judges would react if advocates turned up without having read the brief... I have never once seen that happen though.

You could hire “the best legal team in the country” and pay their fees, but why would you do that when you could instruct them with legal aid? The exact same people.

Again, I’m really sorry to labour the point but it’s not fair to mislead and frighten people into possibly spending money they absolutely don’t need to.

Itsnotme yes it's a legal requirement. But if they deny an accident and don't complete it there's no proof an accident happened iyswim?

Did you get any information from the medical people today?

Please ignore all the people who will convict you without evidence. I say innocent until proven guilty. I would have been more concerned myself if you hadn't taken him to nursery. It's well known children at risk aren't the ones regularly in the public eye. I'm sure you wouldn't have taken a baby who you knew to have a fractured skull to nursery. I'd have been more suspicious if you'd kept him at home that day!

Thinking about you Op!

This is just awful.

I really hope everything works out.

I just wanted to add, although I'm not sure how relevant it is- someone said that if a child has a temperature at nursery they need to be collected, or if they have had to have calpol they need to be collected. This isn't true for all nurseries. Where I work we will give one dose and the child only needs to go home if their temperature doesn't go down or if it goes down but then rises again later.

Your son was dropped off to nursery at 8am thriving, you get a call at 11am asking for consent on calpol (red flag) , 4:30pm You receive a call regarding a lump,(Red flag) somewhere between 8am and 11am whilst in the nurseries care your son was injured. Just read he's only 10months old so his skull isn't fully developed and the lump is on the side of his head, anything could have happened from someone dropping him or a child hurting him , literally 101 things could have happened but from everything you've said I definitely suspect it was a nursery incident.

So sorry you are going through this OP, I hope the truth comes to light very soon and you get your precious boy home as soon as possible.

I don't think people seem to.understand legal aid ,my dh was charged with assault (won't go into detail,s ) I have a relative that's a QC who recommended a law firm in my town ,we approached them with the details of the case they than applied for Legal aid and dh got legal aid up.to the value of £30,000 I assume we would have got the same service had we paid or legal aid paid!

Op how is your wee boy?

For goodness sake. All these comments about legal aid lawyers being somehow less because they do legal aid.

I'm a lawyer and I don't do any care work. Sure you can pay me £300 per hour to instruct me to do care work that I have no expertise in. Sure I can instruct a barrister at lots of £'a to represent you.

Would I? No. I would send you to a legal aid firm because their expertise is legal aid and you would be getting the best advice from them.

I've seen some amazing legal aid lawyers and they are the experts in care work.

They generally don't do any other kind of family law and wouldn't be able to advise you on divorce and finances etc.

To be honest Racmactac this thread was always going to go this way.
There's too many opinions on things linked to safeguarding and not enough people deploying common sense or knowing where their area of expertise ends, hence why it's easier and acceptable for people to make all sorts of claims about safeguarding,social workers, legal aid etc and get irritated and defensive with anyone who suggests taking a step back and advising the OP to speak to appropriate people offline.

Sometimes I think crap advice online can be more troublesome than no advice in some situations.

Hope you're holding up @napol.
Such a horrible thing to happen to you, I hope you and your partner are staying strong enough to fight this.

Cooperate with SS.

I really hope it's not a long process before you get your baby boy back

If the police and/or SS are investigating the nursery be very careful not to do anything that might interfere with the investigation, or prejudice the case should charges be brought.

@napol how is your baby?
How are you?
Hope hospital tests have managed to establish something about the manner in which baby's head was injured and nursery have been able to explain the calpol administration.
We are thinking of you.
There are plenty of people here happy to give an impartial handhold. It's one thing mumsnet can do well (as well as rant and burn posters unfortunately who might not see it coming).
If you need your hand held or someone to talk to stipulate that.

This might be a terrible suggestion but would it be worth hiring a private investigator, OP?

In a totally unrelated and incomparable situation' A man in my local town was attacked by teenagers who threw missiles at him and his dog as he walked home through the park one evening. He hired a private investigator and found the names of the teenagers responsible and took it to the police who were able to charge.

Maybe a private investigator could help get the ball rolling a bit faster and get your lovely boy back to you sooner?